screens...

[gwnn]

the following sequence, at screens, N dealt.

 

2NT-p-3♥-p

3♠-p-3NT-p

p-p

 

the tray has only been pushed halfway back, so the 3NT bid has not been seen by N nor W.

 

W makes his lead, face down, the screen is open, W turns his card right side up, then S (before showing his cards) leans down and tells his pard "watch it you're playing 3NT"

[matmat]

is this where we call the director?

[jtfanclub]

Huh? West has not yet seen the 3NT bid, but he's leading?

 

I'm confused. Again.

[gwnn]

pushing the screen back only half way means "it's been passed out this half of the screen"

[mycroft]

Ah, that's a shortcut that usually works (screen regs I've read don't say anything about it).

 

Here, of course, it didn't.

 

South is responsible for pushing the tray through, so yeah, we call the TD.

 

Of course, the auction didn't go the way you said, it went:

2NT-p-3H-p;

3S-p-3NT-p

 

and then East led. Right? Yeah, N and E picked up their cards, but that's another shortcut that usually works, just not in this case.

 

I believe all instances of "W" in the OP is "E", correct?

 

If everything I said above actually happened, then East exposed a card during the auction, because, primarily, of South's error, in a situation where South was so concerned about what he did that he made a point of reminding his partner. Deliberate? Maybe not. "could have been misleading to the opponents"? Oh yeah. I'd probably apply L24B to the card prematurely led, and after it does go P-P, "designate otherwise" on the penalty card. I'd probably even rule that there was no UI from the exposed card to West, but there is to North.

 

All assuming that West didn't stop the tray from being passed through fully or pass it through himself (yet another irregularity), of course.

[TimG]

It sounds like:

 

North and west are on the same side of the screen. The auction was passed out on the south/east side of the screen. The tray was pushed halfway back, indicating the auction has ended, but leaving the tray positioned so that everyone can remove their bidding cards at the same time. West leads out of turn. South notices the irregularity and announces it to the table in an odd manner.

 

What should be done? The director should be called, obviously. So, I'm going to guess the real question is "what should the director rule?" Does the face down lead followed by no objection from north absolve west of any penalty from leading out of turn?

[JanM]

North & East are always on the same side of the screen, so far as I know - that's so that N/S, who are responsible for pushing the tray, bid first, allowing E/W to control the tempo by the timing of their bids and N/S to control the tempo by how promptly they push the tray. As I read the OP, what happened is that S didn't push the tray back fully, so N and E thought that 3S had been passed out and E led under that mistaken impression. If that's true, the issue is presumably whether N & E are still allowed to bid over 3NT-P. And of course, there's the secondary question of whether E is allowed to change his lead now that he knows the contract is 3NT. Sounds as if the table definitely needs a director to straighten this out. I'd think that N & E still have bids coming (after all, N might prefer 4S to 3NT), and that E should be allowed to change his lead, but I don't know. That's why we pay the directors the big bucks, isn't it? :)

[blackshoe]

Absent any specific screen-related regulation saying otherwise, the auction isn't over. So East's "lead" is a "card exposed or led during the auction" (Law 24), and after the TD deals with that, it's North to call.

[TimG]

the tray has only been pushed halfway back, so the 3NT bid has not been seen by N nor W.

I took this to mean that N and W were on the same side of the screen.

[skjaeran]

the tray has only been pushed halfway back, so the 3NT bid has not been seen by N nor W.

I took this to mean that N and W were on the same side of the screen.

That's one logical conclusion, and the one that at first glance seems obvious.

 

However, if you're used to playing with screens, you'd assume it was a typo, and that north and EAST didn't see the 3NT bid. :)

[gwnn]

Yes it was N and E who didn't see the 3NT and the subsequent pass. And yes, my question is "what should the director rule?".

[TimG]

Yes it was N and E who didn't see the 3NT and the subsequent pass. And yes, my question is "what should the director rule?".

So then, there really haven't been three passes to end the auction?

 

And, was it East who made the lead or West?

[jdonn]

Sorry csaba I have read this whole thread several times, and I'm still not sure what happened.

[gwnn]

I think mycroft got it 100%. Let me try to be as specific as possible.

 

N: 2NT, E: p, tray is passed

S: 3C, W:p, tray is passed

N: 3S, E:p, tray is passed

S: 3NT, W: p, S pushes the tray only halfway back. All four players gather their bidding cards.

 

(S assumes it will go pass-pass, so why bother.)

(N and E assume 3S is the final contract.)

 

E makes a lead, face down. The little door (what's the English word for it?) is lifted.

 

E turns his card right side up. S puts his cards down face down, looks at his partner and says "watch it pard, the contract is 3NT". E calls the TD.

 

What should the TD rule?

[MFA]

pushing the screen back only half way means "it's been passed out this half of the screen"

?? :)

I thought I had a lot of experience with screens, but I have never heard about that one before.

 

To indicate a passed out, the players remove their previous bids and return the tray with the empty slots for the other side to see. Or simply place the final passes, but this is rarely done in practice.

 

South is not to blame here. If N/E can't see the bidding, N just pulls the tray closer. This happens all the time. Many players never push the tray through but always leave it up to partner to pull it the last way. That way you avoid hitting partner's cup of coffee on the other side of the screen :D.

[jtfanclub]

Oh, then I dunno. I'm allowed to put the red suits together to remind partner that we're in NT. I think I'm even allowed to ask the contract before I put my hand down as dummy, although I don't know any rule about it (after all, it might be a lead out of turn, and I'm going to write down the contract now).

 

It seems a little iffy, but I can't imagine ruling damage. I'm sure not going to issue a PP for this. If the opps were uptight enough to call me on this, then I'd issue a warning. I wouldn't call if my opps did this.

[OleBerg]

pushing the screen back only half way means "it's been passed out this half of the screen"

?? :)

I thought I had a lot of experience with screens, but I have never heard about that one before.

 

To indicate a passed out, the players remove their previous bids and return the tray with the empty slots for the other side to see. Or simply place the final passes, but this is rarely done in practice.

 

South is not to blame here. If N/E can't see the bidding, N just pulls the tray closer. This happens all the time. Many players never push the tray through but always leave it up to partner to pull it the last way. That way you avoid hitting partner's cup of coffee on the other side of the screen :D.

Well, once or twice each season I try it the other way around:

 

Partner deliberately goes for my cop of coffea.

 

This is normally followed by me declaring 3nt-4, while my partner could have made 3 of a minor.

[dburn]

I think mycroft got  it 100%. Let me try to be as specific as possible.

 

N: 2NT, E: p, tray is passed

S: 3C, W:p, tray is passed

N: 3S, E:p, tray is passed

S: 3NT, W: p, S pushes the tray only halfway back. All four players gather their bidding cards.

 

(S assumes it will go pass-pass, so why bother.)

(N and E assume 3S is the final contract.)

 

E makes a lead, face down. The little door (what's the English word for it?) is lifted.

 

E turns his card right side up. S puts his cards down face down, looks at his partner and says "watch it pard, the contract is 3NT". E calls the TD.

 

What should the TD rule?

That the contract is 3NT, that East has led whatever he has led, and that North should get on with the play.

 

Whereas strictly speaking North and East have not passed after South's 3NT, they have picked up their bidding cards, which is equivalent to passing. Maybe North would not have passed 3NT, maybe East would have led something different against 3NT than against 3♠, but too bad. "No rectification or redress is due to a player who acts on the basis of his own misunderstanding." [Law 21A, 2007 code]