Rossoneri Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 [hv=d=w&v=n&s=sk5haq7dakj8764c3]133|100|Scoring: IMPYou are South. Bidding goes 3 passes to you.[/hv] After you open 1♦, partner responds 1♠. how would you rebid this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 3♦ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 I'd rebid 3♦ as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Close one but I'm ok with 3♦, given the flaws of the other choices. So my hand is good for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 3♦ for me, noting that I am allowed to hold a max, and this certainly is one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossoneri Posted August 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Interestingly the star that I was kibbing bid 2♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Interestingly the star that I was kibbing bid 2♥. Shows you that having a star doesn't mean much in terms of ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Interestingly the star that I was kibbing bid 2♥. Shows you that having a star doesn't mean much in terms of ability. lol. You are right about the star being meaningless but I would not assume that someone who bid 2H on this hand is a terrible player. It seems pretty close either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Interestingly the star that I was kibbing bid 2♥. Shows you that having a star doesn't mean much in terms of ability. lol. You are right about the star being meaningless but I would not assume that someone who bid 2H on this hand is a terrible player. It seems pretty close either way. Perhaps it has passed you by that you have 7 Ds? I coud understand, though not approve of, a rebid of 2H with 6 as some posters on this forum are want to do. However with 7 it seems somewhat over the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Hi, 3D. The first question you have to answer toyourself is, do you want to force to game.If No, you have a beautiful 3D bid, if Yes,you have a slight problem, most likely youwould have to go with 2H. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LH2650 Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Perhaps it has passed you by that you have 7 Ds? I coud understand, though not approve of, a rebid of 2H with 6 as some posters on this forum are want to do. However with 7 it seems somewhat over the top.It is the 7th ♦ that makes the hand too strong for a 3♦ rebid. I'm for 2♥. A more interesting problem is what you would have rebid if partner had responded 1♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Perhaps it has passed you by that you have 7 Ds? I coud understand, though not approve of, a rebid of 2H with 6 as some posters on this forum are want to do. However with 7 it seems somewhat over the top.It is the 7th ♦ that makes the hand too strong for a 3♦ rebid. I'm for 2♥. A more interesting problem is what you would have rebid if partner had responded 1♥. 3D as well, ... and the problem is not interesting.It is an well known problem, there are solutionsout there, if you dont want to go artificial, bid 3D. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LH2650 Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 Perhaps it has passed you by that you have 7 Ds? I coud understand, though not approve of, a rebid of 2H with 6 as some posters on this forum are want to do. However with 7 it seems somewhat over the top.It is the 7th ♦ that makes the hand too strong for a 3♦ rebid. I'm for 2♥. A more interesting problem is what you would have rebid if partner had responded 1♥. 3D as well, ... and the problem is not interesting.It is an well known problem, there are solutionsout there, if you dont want to go artificial, bid 3D. With kind regardsMarloweIf partner responds 1♥, I think a little simulation will show you that: If partner has 5♥ and 6 HCP, you want to be in 4♥If partner has 3♦, and 6 HCP, you want to be in 5♦If partner has 7 HCP, you want to be in 3N And I'm not talking vulnerable at IMPs odds. My partners are not bidding any of those games after a 3♦ rebid, so I think that this is a game forcing hand. But how do you get to the right spot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 Not that this necessarily changes anything, but I do wonder what if anything the impact is on the decision to not open in fourth seat either 2♦ or 3♦. Arguably, it seems that a fourth seat 2♦ covers some hands where one would normally open 1♦ and rebid 2♦, which seems to bump up that 1♦...2♦ auction. If other hands that might be opened 1♦ and then rebid 2♦ or even 3♦ are actually opened 3♦, then that fourth-seat 1♦...3♦ auction seems to logically be stronger than a normal 1♦...3♦ sequence. In that event, I think that 2♥ might have more merit if the 1♦ opening had not been in fourth seat, and that 3♦ looks right in this seat with this hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 2H WTP and i think 3D is a mistake. 1- Partner will pass 3D with hands that make 3Nt a good bet and we are in IMPs.2- partner will bid 3Nt with the K of H and a shaky club stopper. AxxxxKxxxxQxx Better to be in 6D than to be in 3Nt 3- Our hand is good for slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 2H WTP and i think 3D is a mistake. 1- Partner will pass 3D with hands that make 3Nt a good bet and we are in IMPs.2- partner will bid 3Nt with the K of H and a shaky club stopper. AxxxxKxxxxQxx Better to be in 6D than to be in 3Nt 3- Our hand is good for slam. What happens when pd bids 4H on xxxx of H and an assorted 8-9 count? You pulling to 5D? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 What happens when pd bids 4H on xxxx of H and an assorted 8-9 count? I go look for a partner who knows 3♥ is forcing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 What happens when pd bids 4H on xxxx of H and an assorted 8-9 count? I go look for a partner who knows 3♥ is forcing? Of course 3H is forcing. Presumably you play 2S or 2NT as blackout here too after a reverse. Did anyone say it wasn't forcing? It should also show a better hand than a raise to 4H, which shows a minimum game acceptance. So your partner's are forbidden from bidding 4H, are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 [hv=d=w&v=n&s=sk5haq7dakj8764c3]133|100|Scoring: IMPYou are South. Bidding goes 3 passes to you.[/hv] After you open 1♦, partner responds 1♠. how would you rebid this? 3d but understand 2h. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 Perhaps it has passed you by that you have 7 Ds? I coud understand, though not approve of, a rebid of 2H with 6 as some posters on this forum are want to do. However with 7 it seems somewhat over the top.It is the 7th ♦ that makes the hand too strong for a 3♦ rebid. I'm for 2♥. A more interesting problem is what you would have rebid if partner had responded 1♥. 3D as well, ... and the problem is not interesting.It is an well known problem, there are solutionsout there, if you dont want to go artificial, bid 3D. With kind regardsMarloweIf partner responds 1♥, I think a little simulation will show you that: If partner has 5♥ and 6 HCP, you want to be in 4♥If partner has 3♦, and 6 HCP, you want to be in 5♦If partner has 7 HCP, you want to be in 3N And I'm not talking vulnerable at IMPs odds. My partners are not bidding any of those games after a 3♦ rebid, so I think that this is a game forcing hand. But how do you get to the right spot? Using artficial methods. #1 Some peoble play, that a 2NT rebid by opener showes a 6 carder and is forcing This gets combines with a jump rebid showing a 6 carder and 3 card support for partner, I not 100% sure if it is played as forcing or not #2 Other play, that the meaning of a 2m and 3m rebid by opener gets switched, making 2m forcing. The above solves the problems with the given hand,but creates some other problems. As I said, the problem is well known and there exist nosilver bullet, and since it is an old problem, it is not a very interesting problem. The hand belongs in the class of the "Bridge World Death Hand". With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 What happens when pd bids 4H on xxxx of H and an assorted 8-9 count? I go look for a partner who knows 3♥ is forcing? Of course 3H is forcing. Presumably you play 2S or 2NT as blackout here too after a reverse. Did anyone say it wasn't forcing? It should also show a better hand than a raise to 4H, which shows a minimum game acceptance. So your partner's are forbidden from bidding 4H, are they? Not at all, it promises a very weak 5-5 for me. 3♥ includes all game forcing hands with 4 hearts. It's standard in at least some/many areas including all over the US that strong, for example, 3361 hands reverse after 1♦ 1♠ since if hearts are raised responder must have 5 spades. I didn't vote for a reverse, but of any minuses in reversing on this hand, partner raising to 4♥ isn't one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 What happens when pd bids 4H on xxxx of H and an assorted 8-9 count? I go look for a partner who knows 3♥ is forcing?True enough, and I'll be right behind you looking for the same guy (altho I wouldn't think he'd be tough to find). But that 3♥ only delays the problem. What do we do next? 4♦? Doesn't this sound like a train on its way to a major crackup? I don't like 2♥ for this reason... of course, these problems are advertisements for other methods :P I'd choose the underbid of 3♦ rather than the value-correct but perhaps unrecoverable from misdescription of 2♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 Another example of a good hand for a forcing 3♦ rebid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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