jillybean Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 [hv=d=w&v=n&n=sj8haj3d9542cat98&s=s765hkq87dt7ckq54]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South 1♦ Pass Pass Dbl Pass 1NT Pass Pass Pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Seems reasonable enough to me. Switch the majors for South and it's almost certainly where you'd want to play it. Edit: Note that this is a mistake I see a lot...sure, you'd rather play in 2 clubs. But it's very possible that if North names a suit instead that the opponents will end up playing in 2♠ making. So that's really where the comparison should be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 North is a much more creative player than me, because I would just bid 2♣. Seriously there should be no desire to play 1NT here with nothing in diamonds opposite shortness. Edit: Sorry, my comments in this thread are dumb because I misread the problem and thought south was a PH. I agree that 1NT has considerably more merit in this situation, but I would still bid 2♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 I also don't understand North's 1NT bid with nothing resembling a stop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Agree 2♣. If north was 3343 with this hand then it might be different since the other options besides 1NT would also be so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Agree with 2♣, the clubs are nice and there is no stopper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Agree that 1N was an error. It looks like a call made by a player whose bridge is mostly at matchpoints: I think it is an error even there, but it is far more understandable at mps than at imps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Agree that 1N was an error. It looks like a call made by a player whose bridge is mostly at matchpoints: I think it is an error even there, but it is far more understandable at mps than at imps. That's a good point. I'm still not convinced that 1NT is an error. South is doubling in balancing seat, so he could have 4-4-3-2 or the like....what's his other choice, pick a major at random? Pass it out? I think it's a bit much to hope that partner has 4 clubs for a balancing seat X. I'm not saying 2♣ is an error either, mind you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Why blame? 1NT is a reasonable bid, and so isthe reopening t/o. 1 NT has the advantage, that it tellspartner you hold values, 2C is justnoise. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 1 NT has the advantage, that it tellspartner you hold values. Ok there are two things wrong with this: 1) Partner does NOT need to know we have values. In this case he already knows we have values, and in fact, I would say my hand is very average for this position. This argument is used all the time even in other (more appropriate but still wrong) scenarios, like "oh man, I could've bid this way with a yarb, so since I have two kings, I have to do something." PARTNER NEVER PLAYS YOU FOR A YARB. 2) 1NT also lies about some values in DIAMONDS?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 2♣ seems pretty straightforward at IMPs. I would definitely consider 1NT at MPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 <snip> 2) 1NT also lies about some values in DIAMONDS?!?! Sure, but also tells something about the shape,and 9xxx is ok as stopper, I would prefer 10xxx,but 9xxx will do as well. Of course 2C works pretty well on the given hand,because our partner happens to hold 4 clubs, as it is, clubs is the first suit he would lie, if he had too. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 <snip> 2) 1NT also lies about some values in DIAMONDS?!?! Sure, but also tells something about the shape,and 9xxx is ok as stopper, I would prefer 10xxx,but 9xxx will do as well. Of course 2C works pretty well on the given hand,because our partner happens to hold 4 clubs, as it is, clubs is the first suit he would lie, if he had too. With kind regardsMarlowe Partner could also have a singleton diamond too. I don't understand this argument, yes he could be 4432 even. Again you are thinking of the worst possible scenario and not the most common scenarios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 <snip> 2) 1NT also lies about some values in DIAMONDS?!?! Sure, but also tells something about the shape,and 9xxx is ok as stopper, I would prefer 10xxx,but 9xxx will do as well. Of course 2C works pretty well on the given hand,because our partner happens to hold 4 clubs, as it is, clubs is the first suit he would lie, if he had too. With kind regardsMarlowe Partner could also have a singleton diamond too. I don't understand this argument, yes he could be 4432 even. Again you are thinking of the worst possible scenario and not the most common scenarios. Partner holding a bal. hand should be prettycommon. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Why blame? 1NT is a reasonable bid, and so isthe reopening t/o. 1 NT has the advantage, that it tellspartner you hold values, 2C is justnoise. With kind regardsMarlowe I agree with this. It is unlucky that these hands mesh so poorly for notrump and mesh so well for clubs. Also, it is not unusual for Easts of all levels of experience to lead something other than a diamond versus notrump when the bidding starts this way. In the not unlikely event that East leads a diamond and the defense can run that suit, your Aces will provide some measure of control over the rest of the play. Sure the DBLer could have a singleton diamond, but he could also have a doubleton club or, as Marlowe correctly points out, a hand that will move toward game over 1NT but not over 2C. Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburn Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Wouldn't blame anyone. If the North hand were given to the Master Solvers' Club, I'd imagine you would find a 50-50 split between 1NT and 2♣. Some might even bid 1♥, and I would not call them fools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Some might even bid 1♥, and I would not call them fools. Trying to imagine all the things you would call them. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 I don't think I would call them at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 I think it is Jeff Reubens who often bids 1N with weirdish hands so that he can get his values across rather than make a "nothing" bid like 2C. I think the best aspect of 1N is that it can get you to some games when partner will pass 2C. Anyways, I don't really like it and I think it makes it way too likely to wrongside 3N if that is our game, but the D9 creates a lot of situations where we can have diamonds stopped. Like it a lot less with 6432. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRW Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Well, I'd prefer 1N, even with IMP scoring myself. A reopening double in particular often has two diamonds rather than one. Also, assuming the 1♦ opener is a better minor type, then there is the possibility that opener doesn't even have 4 of them himself. Plus there are times when the ♦9 will be a useful card. Plus there are sometimes games we will find by making the value showing bid. Plus there are times, as on this hand possibly, where opps will find their spade fit over 2♣ that they are less likely to find over 1N. Sure there will be times when it turns out to have been the wrong choice - but one hand proves nothing. Anyway, I love playing 1N. So many folks groan and say, "another boring part score". But I find 1N so rich in possibilities most times - excellent source of tactical battles. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Note that If your opponents are playing Precision then 1NT scores 100 and everything else scores 0 because: - chances of West having real diamonds are greatly diminished- even if he does, chances of East leading a diamond are greatly diminished Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburn Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Note that If your opponents are playing Precision then 1NT scores 100 and everything else scores 0 because: - chances of West having real diamonds are greatly diminished- even if he does, chances of East leading a diamond are greatly diminishedWell, on this occasion if he doesn't lead a diamond he will probably lead a spade, and that might not be so good for your side either. Only on rare occasions will he try a club from such as ♣Jx - "my LHO has the majors, my RHO has diamonds stopped, but what these fools do not know is that sometimes my partner opens 1♦ with a long club suit." Not that this means I would not bid 1NT with the North hand - I would. After all, you can scarcely expect me of all people to violate the Law of Total Trumps by risking 2♣ on a possible 4-2 fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotShot Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Like it a lot less with 6432. I don't like 6432 hands as well DIRECTOR! B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Like it a lot less with 6432. I don't like 6432 hands as well DIRECTOR! B) Not sure if this is a joke but obviously I was talking about 6432 of diamonds not 6432 shape... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotShot Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Like it a lot less with 6432. I don't like 6432 hands as well DIRECTOR! B) Not sure if this is a joke but obviously I was talking about 6432 of diamonds not 6432 shape... Well if there are 15 cards in diamonds, I would call the director too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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