Guest Jlall Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 playing MP, partner opens 1N 14-16. You hold Kxxx Ax Kx Axxxx and bid 2C, and partner bids 2D. You can bid 3C natural and forcing, or just bid 3N. Which is it? Would your answer be different had partner bid 2H? Sorry I messed it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effervesce Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 3♣ for me. Just too big a chance partner may have a decent hand for slam purposes. If p responds 2♥, It's closer-partner may still have the perfect hand, but you can't really play in 4NT, so 3NT will usually be the best spot. So i'll bid 3NT after 2♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Hi, I guess, I would go with 3NT. Depending on the field there may be a causefor 3C, you may win the board due to your better than average partnership agreements. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotShot Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 In a weak field i bid 3NT. Getting an overtrick more than the field will be good enough for a top. In a stronger field I can't gain much with the field action, because everybody plays well. So I might want to explore if 6/7♣ or 6/7NT are makable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Hmm I suppose blasting may have its merits but I would always bid 3C with this hand as my hand seems soo good. I guess I'm not used to blasting 3NT with these kind of hands in MPs as I always end up taking the science route.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 3NT is hopeless bridge, IMO. Partner's 2♦ call means that he has about 2.5 in each major and about 4 in each minor now. Give partner an interesting 12-count like ♠Kx ♥xxx ♦Axxx ♣KQxx, and I want to be in a fairly sound 6♣ slam. Put the remaining 2-4 points wherever you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Definitely 3♣. Plenty of room to stop in NT after that. There are a lot of hands partner could have where slam is cold or nearly so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 3NT. Balanced hand opposite balanced hand = play in NT. Exceptions are FAR too rare to justify messing up an easy auction. Would bid 3♣ with a singleton, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 I started writing "we need to ideal a hand from pard for slam" and wanted to give a hand but then I realized there were too many hands, so basically I think 3♣ is best (thanks for showing the hand!). Of course sometimes we'll stop in 5 when 3NT was down, which is another plus. I think partner liking clubs and we going past a making 3NT is practically impossible - the only danger is they make a better lead, but i'm not that worried, pard has all the tenaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Definitely 3♣ over 2♦. When 5♣ or 6♣ might both be better than 3N, I think its worth investigating. With my red suits, 3N vs slam aren't the only options here. The only way 3♣ is wrong is when RHO was thinking about leading one, and thats just too remote a possibility. The other drawback is when pard gets horny over 3♣, but I have over half the controls, so I can't be too upset about that. Over 2♥ this is a much tougher decision. It would probably depend how we are running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Strange, I had a very similar hand recently, except I am pretty sure it was Kxxx Ax Kx Axxxx. Would this change anyone's opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 This would be a good hand for a simulation, since partner's hand is well-limited, altho we'd need to exercise some judgment in determining the extent to which partner will cooperate. I love Aces and Kings when the hand offers some slam possibilities, and I like the shape as well. I cannot see not making a try here. Far too many 15 counts make slam good. Many 14 counts as well, but partner will rarely be cooperating with 14 counts when we have all these Aces and Kings. Anyone who thinks this is (remotely) a 15 count hand doesn't deserve to be dealt so many controls B) Edit: if partner had bid 2♥, I am not quite as happy, and I would prefer other methods, since playing either a relay stayman or 2-way stayman, I could easily find out his shape (and relay allows me to find where his high card are as well), but the hand is still good enough to make a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Arend's right, it was indeed Kxxx Ax Ax Kxxxx. I would bid stayman followed by 3NT just like he did at the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 When I saw this hand it was quite instructive for me. I am now convinced 3NT is very very very lazy bridge, but I admit I might not have thought so before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Sorry one of our aces changed into a king, thoughts now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRW Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 This would be a good hand for a simulation... Well, a run of 100 hands where pard has 14-16, no 4cM and bal and rho has no hand with most of the missing hcp and good distribution (i.e. no likely overcall) shows 3N making 99% and 6C 64% (remembering that DD analysis slightly favours declarer at high levels) - so looks like worth investigating with a 3C bid if the field is at all reasonable. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRW Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Sorry one of our aces changed into a king, thoughts now? Well, assuming your methods aren't going to have partner going past 3N without a pretty good reason, then 3C is probably still worth a shot - but obviously this is a good deal more marginal now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy4hoop Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 I guess I like 3♣ regardless of which red suit partner bids. I think the hand is too control-rich to bid only 3NT over 2♦ and and won't feel like I've accurately described this hand should partner pass 3NT after bidding 2♥. I understand we won't lose out on the 4-4 spade fit in this second case and may even get to 6♠ but if partner doesn't have spades, he takes a ton of tricks in 3NT while we miss a slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 playing MP, partner opens 1N 14-16. You hold Kxxx Ax Kx Axxxx and bid 2C, and partner bids 2D. You can bid 3C natural and forcing, or just bid 3N. Which is it? Would your answer be different had partner bid 2H? In both cases, IMO 3C = 10, 3N = 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Sorry one of our aces changed into a king, thoughts now? doesnt change my opinion, makes it less obvious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 My partner bid 3C and we found SEVEN clubs. I thought he made a good bid. Not sure I would have made the same bid but I definitely will after this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcLight Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 I ran a simulation of 250 hands useing Deal Master Pro.It looks like exploring the clubs slam (via 3C) is worthwhile) since you can stop at a safe level. 3NT = 98%4NT = 88%5NT = 64%6NT = 25% 5C = 81%6C = 40%7C = 8% The club slam is far less than NickRWs simulation.Maybe its a factor of the X's. I chose a mixture, all less than 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 My partner bid 3C and we found SEVEN clubs. I thought he made a good bid. Not sure I would have made the same bid but I definitely will after this thread. Just for curiosity, what was the other hand and auction? Obviously a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 My partner bid 3C and we found SEVEN clubs. I thought he made a good bid. Not sure I would have made the same bid but I definitely will after this thread. Just for curiosity, what was the other hand and auction? Obviously a good one. I had the other aces and kings, 5 clubs (i showed the queen in keycard), and short spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRW Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 I ran a simulation of 250 hands useing Deal Master Pro.It looks like exploring the clubs slam (via 3C) is worthwhile) since you can stop at a safe level. 3NT = 98%4NT = 88%5NT = 64%6NT = 25% 5C = 81%6C = 40%7C = 8% The club slam is far less than NickRWs simulation.Maybe its a factor of the X's. I chose a mixture, all less than 8. My choices for the Xs were all less than 8s as well. My sample was only 100 - so it could have been on the high side thanks to random effects. Perhaps the restriction I put on one of the defenders hand to simulate the lack of an overcall had an effect too. Whatever... If partner is only going past 3N with fit and non min, or some such method, then it seems pretty safe to investigate anyhow. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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