pick up expert

[jillybean]

Dealer: South Vul: NS Scoring: IMP ♠ QJ ♥ A8 ♦ T ♣ AQJT8762

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     -     1♣

 Pass  1♥    Pass  3♣

 Pass  3NT   Pass  ?  

 

Playing with an unknown expert, all you have agreed is "2/1"

 

Do you agree with the 1♣ opening and what now?

[blackshoe]

If I was sure 4♣ or 4♦ would be taken as RKCB, I'd bid that, but it probably won't be. I could bid 4NT, but is that simple BW, RKC, or 1430? Too many variables.

 

6♣

 

And yes, I agree with 1♣.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

1C is surely ok, if you have to bid 3C is another thing,

but 3C is not a out of space bid.

 

Now pass.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[rogerclee]

I would bid 4♣, which is just forcing with lots of clubs.

[mike777]

4c..but

 

hard hand..close....

[awm]

I would question whether a 4♣ bid even exists in this auction. Keep in mind that we have already made a non-forcing 3♣ bid and partner has signed off in game (which may even be a stretch). One can argue that it is better to open something else or rebid something else but limiting our hand and then pulling partner's signoff to slam (or RKC) doesn't make much sense to me.

 

There are also many partner hands where 3NT is our last making spot; give partner something like Txxx QJxx KQx Kx (actually a much better hand than he needs to have) and how do you like your chances in five or six clubs? I'd pass 3NT.

[P_Marlowe]

<snip>

Keep in mind that we have already made a non-forcing 3♣ bid and partner has signed off in game (which may even be a stretch).

<snip>

thanks.

[brianshark]

I don't like my hand for 3NT. I'd rather play 5♣ but if 3NT rolls home and we are off 3+ top tricks in 5♣ then partner will not be happy with me. I guess I'll pass.

[gwnn]

3♣ sort of limited your hand, like a 1NT opener etc. You can't bid over 3NT. And of course it's a bit tempting, I'll definitely give you that :(

[andy_h]

Agree with the bidding, and now a smooth and a happy pass.

[HeavyDluxe]

I think the bidding looks fine and would pass.

[jillybean]

Well, I did bid 4♣ and my partner jumped to 6♣, (making 7)

3♣ while nf is showing a very good hand and I was hoping the pull to 4♣ was suggesting slam or preferring game in ♣ to nt.

 

I dont like my partners 3nt bid, the correct spot here of course is 5♣

 

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=s8653hkt72dakck43&w=s9742hq94dj8543c9&e=sakthj653dq9762c5&s=sqjha8dtcaqjt8762]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     -     1♣

 Pass  1♥    Pass  3♣

 Pass  3NT   Pass  4♣

 Pass  6♣    Pass  Pass

 Pass  

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

well, with the hand your partner held, I would be hard

pressed to stop below 6C.

 

In other words: 3NT is an underbid, and he should

either explore slam with a 4C bid or jump to 6C.

If he bids 4C, the partnership should be able to

locate the missing spade control.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[bid_em_up]

....... the correct spot here of course is 5♣

And why is that?

 

3N's a fine contract, and a lot better than 6C.

 

I agree with the 1C opening, and pass 3N. I happen to think that 3N is the correct spot as well.

[kfay]

Why wouldn't I open 1♣? Or was the question do I agree with 3♣? Now I can't remember.

 

Anyways. I couldn't dream of bidding over 3NT. Don't I have a major source of tricks?

[jillybean]

....... the correct spot here of course is 5♣

And why is that?

 

3N's a fine contract, and a lot better than 6C.

 

I agree with the 1C opening, and pass 3N. I happen to think that 3N is the correct spot as well.

After Ive shown 16-18, ♣ hand I dont think 3nt holding xxxx ♠ and an opening hand is the smartest bid but then Im not an expert.

[kfay]

I dont like my partners 3nt bid, the correct spot here of course is 5♣

I really don't see any problem with 3NT. Surely you have something in ♠ for a jump when he's got the reds? 4 to the 8 could be a stopper anyway.

 

I think that 3NT is the correct spot.

[bid_em_up]

....... the correct spot here of course is 5♣

And why is that?

 

3N's a fine contract, and a lot better than 6C.

 

I agree with the 1C opening, and pass 3N. I happen to think that 3N is the correct spot as well.

After Ive shown 16-18, ♣ hand I dont think 3nt holding xxxx ♠ and an opening hand is the smartest bid but then Im not an expert.

jb,

 

you have nothing (worthwhile) in diamonds. The expert is looking at the AK.

 

you are missing the club K, so your club suit is not solid.

 

you are missing the heart A.

 

The expert is looking at all of these cards and knows you are missing them.

 

And yet you could still bid 3C. You must have some values in spades to justify the 3C bid. The fact that his spades are 8xxx has no real bearing on the 3N call.

[jillybean]

....... the correct spot here of course is 5♣

And why is that?

 

3N's a fine contract, and a lot better than 6C.

 

I agree with the 1C opening, and pass 3N. I happen to think that 3N is the correct spot as well.

After Ive shown 16-18, ♣ hand I dont think 3nt holding xxxx ♠ and an opening hand is the smartest bid but then Im not an expert.

jb,

 

you have nothing (worthwhile) in diamonds. The expert is looking at the AK.

 

you are missing the club K, so your club suit is not solid.

 

you are missing the heart A.

 

The expert is looking at all of these cards and knows you are missing them.

 

And yet you could still bid 3C. You must have some values in spades to justify the 3C bid. The fact that his spades are 8xxx has no real bearing on the 3N call.

Or I could hold the hand I have, 3♣ isnt wrong is it? I dont think 3nt is bad but why jump to game when 3♦ is available. We have a ♣ fit, 5♣ or slam may be a better spot. A little cue bidding would have revealed the ♠ suit wide open.

[bid_em_up]

Or I could hold the hand I have. I dont think 3nt is bad but why jump to game? We have a ♣ fit, 5♣ or slam may be a better spot.

Not sure what you mean by "or I could hold the hand I have".

 

The hand you have, is not a 3C bid to me, but you did not ask if we agreed with 3C. The "expert" doesn't know you dont have your bid and is bidding accordingly. Secondly, even holding the hand you have, 8xxx will be a stop most of the time.

 

Why would he want to play 5C when looking at 10/11 top tricks in NT? So if he's not going to consider 6C, 3N is the correct bid.

 

After a 3C bid, he can (and should) cue 3D. In fact, after a 3C bid, holding this hand, it would be difficult to keep me out of 6C unless we managed to discover the lack of spade control in time.

[jtfanclub]

After Ive shown 16-18, ♣ hand I dont think 3nt holding xxxx ♠ and an opening hand is the smartest bid but then Im not an expert.

You showed a 16-18 ♣ hand, but that's not what you have.

 

You have 14 hcp, really 13 since the QJ tight doesn't look like 3 points.

 

6♣, hell. I'd be tempted to shoot 6NT over a 3♣ bid! Maybe if I don't reveal anything I'll get a diamond lead.

[jillybean]

Ok, then you all bid 2♣ over 1♥? Meeooow

[mikeh]

I tend to open these hands 5♣ in part because I am not going to like my options over most responses, and in part because I would be worried about the opps getting together if I opened 1♣: which is the call that most invites the opps into the auction.

 

If I opened 1♣, and I am not saying it is wrong to do so, I would certainly bid 3♣... this hand is not about point count, it is about playing strength and the thought of bidding a weak-sounding 2♣ makes me ill.

 

Having bid 3♣ and heard 3N, this is an easy pass... not a comfortable pass, but an easy one. It is uncomfortable for all the obvious reasons, but I should have thought of that before opening 1♣. There was nothing about this auction that should have surprised me.

 

Pulling to 4♣ is just plain wrong. Look at it from partner's perspective... 4♣ is the type of call that gets partners to pull their hair out... it is a bid that says that the earlier bidding was a mistake.. but what kind of mistake? And remember that 3N is a very wide range bid, especially red at imps... he may be stretching, or he may be heading for the simplest game, confident of overtricks (as he was on the hand in question, subject only to a fear about spades.. but he has so much stuff and the white v red opps never peeped at the one level... so I'd be betting 20-1 or more that they can't run 5 spade tricks.

 

It is important to stay with your bidding plan. Opening 1♣ and then bidding a non-forcing 3♣ means that you have to stay in 3N.

 

As to whether 3N was the correct call: well, I happen to agree with it (compared to everyone's suggestion of 3♦). I don't like 3♦... why telegraph the lead... xx in spades is all I may need... and remember that opener's first task over 3♦ to to admit to or deny 3 card heart support... 3♦ is NOT a stopper ask per se. So if opener bids 3♥, what now??? 3♠ doesn't sound like xxxx to me :P

 

 

My only concern is that I do have a pretty good hand for slam, and I am not at all sure that 4♣, setting trump and forcing, wouldn't be better at imps... the odds of 5♣ being unmakable are very low.

 

Slam could be anywhere from verygood to hopeless opposite more typical 3♣ bids and I would probably not risk exploring unless playing with an expert, because we are going to have to be bidding well to do the right thing. With a non-expert partner, bid 3N and then, if time permits, discuss slam bidding afterwards...

[jdonn]

I would pull 3NT to 4♣, because there are two suits that could be problems and because 3NT could be down a lot if it's down. It's not like partner needs the king of clubs to bid 3NT. Of course the actual 3NT bid was ridiculous although it's a fine contract given no one overcalled spades, but I think either player should get this to 5♣.

 

Opening 5♣ might not have been a bad idea at all.

[ArtK78]

I would have bid 5♣ over 3NT. There is an old adage which goes something like this:

 

"What do you call an eight-card suit?"

 

"Trump."

 

And another old adage says that you never put down an eight-card suit in the dummy.

 

Now, these are both platitudes, but like most bridge platitutes, there is a lot of logic behind them.

 

Whether there is a logical way to explore for a club slam is another matter. Considering that I already made a bid that could be passed, I am not going to give partner another chance to pass. I bid 5♣ and hope I am right.

 

As for why 5♣ is the best spot on the hand, that is fairly clear. If either opponent has AKT9x(x) of spades [or Kx or Ax opposite HT9xx] 3NT is down on a spade lead (assuming no underlead of the AK). Meanwhile, the chance that 5♣ goes down on an adverse red suit ruff is extremely small.