Cell Phone Ban

[rbforster]

I know plenty of people who just carried their phones turned off in the game room. Of course there was no way to tell. In a non NABC event I had my phone in my pocket and it buzzed (vibrate mode) when someone tried to call me. No one at the table noticed.

[pclayton]

I know plenty of people who just carried their phones turned off in the game room. Of course there was no way to tell. In a non NABC event I had my phone in my pocket and it buzzed (vibrate mode) when someone tried to call me. No one at the table noticed.

In the non-NABC events I carried my cell phone too - and my iPod.

 

Some yahoo didn't like me wearing my iPod at the table so I took it off. No big deal.

[jmc]

I'm really curious how the yahoo expressed their displeasure of your ipod? Was it during a pairs game? Was it before the round began? Was your ipod on? Were you listening to it?

 

I might have called the director if I thought said yahoo was just being a jerk for no reason. I certainly would have filled out a recorder slip if I thought said yahoo was an intimidate or irritate for a top board kind of yahoo. I am still amazed these people exist at bridge.

 

jmc

[TimG]

I find it rather rude if someone comes to the table wearing headphones or does a crossword puzzle or reads a book while dummy. But, I wouldn't say anything or otherwise make an issue.

[pclayton]

I'm really curious how the yahoo expressed their displeasure of your ipod? Was it during a pairs game? Was it before the round began? Was your ipod on? Were you listening to it?

 

I might have called the director if I thought said yahoo was just being a jerk for no reason. I certainly would have filled out a recorder slip if I thought said yahoo was an intimidate or irritate for a top board kind of yahoo. I am still amazed these people exist at bridge.

 

jmc

It was a KO match. At first he said, "you can't have that on". I said, "sure I can, this isn't a NABC" (it was a compact KO). He got kind of a confused look, and I just said, "if it bothers you, I'll put it away".

 

He's someone I know from my area, and I didn't feel like making an issue about it.

[pclayton]

I find it rather rude if someone comes to the table wearing headphones or does a crossword puzzle or reads a book while dummy. But, I wouldn't say anything or otherwise make an issue.

This surprises me. You seem like a person who wouldn't care about something like this.

 

I know a lady from LA that constantly knits while she is dummy (she is a Grand LM).

 

I think it was Compton that was reading a book during the USBF when he was dummy.

 

My feeling is someone could do about anything they wanted while they were dummy, as long as it didn't slow the game down. During long matches, I'll keep my headphones in my ears and listen during the bidding, although if I need to explain a lot of things, I will keep the volume at "1", so its barely audible to me, and I can hear other things going on.

[JoAnneM]

I am surprised that this is allowed. Not because I don't approve (I don't have an opinion), but because of a recent conversation with a tournament TD. We were talking about a player at a table who had earphones plugged in while he was playing and the Director said he had a note from his doctor saying he had AHDD? and playing music kept him focused. Without the note it wouldn't be allowed. This was at a Regional.

[NickRW]

saying he had AHDD?

ADHD, attention deficit hyperactive disorder.

 

Personally I reckon being allowed to have music on the grounds of ADHD is a fairly lame excuse - a lot of people find concentrating better with music whether they have ADHD or not. If such aids are banned, they're banned - or - if they're allowed then they're allowed to my mind. Clearly if the person has the volume so high that they can't hear if spoken to, then it is bad manners minimum.

 

Nick

[JanM]

I find it rather rude if someone comes to the table wearing headphones or does a crossword puzzle or reads a book while dummy.  But, I wouldn't say anything or otherwise make an issue.

This surprises me. You seem like a person who wouldn't care about something like this.

 

I think it was Compton that was reading a book during the USBF when he was dummy.

Probably it was Chip, who always reads something when he's dummy so he doesn't waste brain cells trying to figure out what's going on (or get unhappy if partner doesn't play a hand as well as s/he should :)). I do crosswords when dummy for the same reason. I've never considered that either of us was being impolite to anyone.

[jeffford76]

I find it rather rude if someone ... does a crossword puzzle or reads a book while dummy.

I hadn't realized people cared about this. What is it that is wrong with this?

[uday]

The defenders need to be able to communicate with dummy ( perhaps to ask a Q about the auction ).

 

Headphones (on or off) send a "don't disturb me" signal and make life harder for some opps. This feels like poor sportsmanship to me.

 

Discreetly reading or knitting or doodling or making paper airplanes under the table seem perfectly fine to me. I'm not sure why.

[jillybean]

How can people knit, read, and doodle and play the cards from dummy?

I like it when my partner is paying attention to the game. Partners who gaze around the room or stare off into space lave me with the feeling they would rather be elsewhere. On the other hand, Ipods would not both me.

Maybe this will change with more live play and the more comfortable and confident I feel.

[ASkolnick]

Personally, reading or knitting, I wouldn't care about. However, headphones could be a problem. The problem you have with headphones is the same problem you have with any other communication device. It is possible that someone could be communicating with you. I have been on the side where a pair was caught cheating (and this was a money event), so the information cost us several places, so I understand why there may be issues.

[TimG]

This surprises me. You seem like a person who wouldn't care about something like this.

Uday put is very well when he said: "headphones (on or off) send a 'don't disturb me' signal." To me, that is rude. (Of course, my kids think that me having headphones on is a signal for them to ask me as many questions as they can think of, so maybe my "don't disturb me" perception is entirely out of line...)

 

As for a book or a crossword, it has been my experience that a dummy who is otherwise occupied often has to pause when playing a card -- that is be snapped out of their other pursuit, register the designated card and then find it -- or will finish the crossword entry they are in the middle of, or the sentence they are reading, before attending to their dummy duties. If dummy can attend to the cards and read/write without appearing distracted, I would feel differently, but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

 

As I said, I would not object to any of these behaviors at the table -- it's not a big deal; on the rudeness scale it is a minor offense.

 

BTW, I have played against Chip and do not recall him reading. Maybe he just wasn't ever dummy or forgot his book for this session. Or, maybe it didn't register as such a big deal as to be noteworthy.

[mycroft]

Headphones concern me, because my security-obsessed mind sees something other than an iPod on the other end. If I don't have to worry about that because I can hear the bass, well, that's not concerning, but it is irritating.

 

I agree, if dummy play slows down, especially if declarer is hard to understand and it's unsafe to play before dummy's card is pulled, whatever dummy is doing that isn't his job is irritating. If it doesn't, more power to him.

[blackshoe]

There are some (very few) people who are truly capable of doing two (or more) things simultaneously, such as reading a book and paying attention, as dummy, to the play of a hand. I would not find a person capable of that to be rude if he does it. OTOH, I've met some people who think they're capable of this, but actually aren't. Their rudeness is due to self-delusion, it's not (or at least, it's rarely) deliberate. It's the ones who know they can't do both who are truly rude.

[Vilgan]

On headphones... lots of younger people seem to be unable to live without their headphones. However, most of them only have the music in one ear (and fairly quiet) and are able to listen/respond/etc just fine. I don't see the problem there.

 

Eric

[uday]

You can already purchase "headphones" that are actually directly connected to their counterparts at the other table. As Mycroft said, there is no assurance that the headphone isnt connected to teammates/cellphone/vugraph as oppposed to music

[awm]

With all this uproar over cheating, I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion of banning:

 

(1) Purses and handbags. These could easily be used to conceal a cell phone or other electronic device. They also frequently contain paper which could be used to write notes about the hands to pass to other players, and may contain performance enhancing drugs of various sorts.

 

(2) Pants with pockets. Similar to the above.

 

(3) Hearing aids. Presumably these are okay if their purpose is to allow someone who is hard of hearing to have normal hearing, but they could easily be tuned to make it easier to listen in on conversations at the other tables (scouting the hands) or to receive signals from other players (communication device).

 

(4) Glasses. Similar to case 3.

 

(5) Pencils and private scores. These can be used to write down results of hands, which can then be shown to other players in the smoking area (giving them clues as to future boards).

 

(6) Visits to the restroom. No cameras in there, easy to pass notes between toilet stalls.

 

(7) Shoes. There is a documented case of a team from MIT using electronic devices in shoes to cheat at blackjack. There is also a documented case of someone trying to use a shoe bomb to blow up an airplane.

 

Seriously people, there are a zillion ways to cheat at bridge. Just because it is possible to rig up a pair of headphones or a cell phone to cheat, doesn't mean people are doing it. It also doesn't mean we should ban those things, or that banning those things will do anything to prevent any of the other zillions of ways of cheating.

 

The vast majority of cheating schemes at bridge revolve around one of two things:

 

( A ) Finding a way to communicate with partner outside of the established means. This can be done by way of foot signals, facial expression, how the cards are held, finger signals, secret agreements, or a zillion other ways. There are many famous scandals revolving around this sort of thing. However the vast majority of these are easily defeated by screens.

 

( B ) Finding a way to get information about boards which have not yet been played. This can be done by sneaking a peak at the hand records, listening to discussion from other tables, chatting with other players outside the playing area during breaks, passing notes, using cell phones, or signals from kibitzers. Although less high-profile than ( A ), there are many documented cases of this type of cheating as well. However, the vast majority of these are easily defeated by barometer play.

[3for3]

 

( B ) Finding a way to get information about boards which have not yet been played. This can be done by sneaking a peak at the hand records, listening to discussion from other tables, chatting with other players outside the playing area during breaks, passing notes, using cell phones, or signals from kibitzers. Although less high-profile than ( A ), there are many documented cases of this type of cheating as well. However, the vast majority of these are easily defeated by barometer play.

While it is true that baromoeter play eliminates some problems, it creates others.

 

There is little doubt when you overhear a result from another table, which board it is, especially with 2 board rounds. There was an incident at the Cavendish, as I understand it, which had this very problem.

 

The other major downside is the need for VASTLY more space between tables. There have been suggestions to get screens in the round of 32 in the V/S and the powers that be keep saying that we don't typically have the floor space to do so.

 

Danny

[paulg]

With all this uproar over cheating, I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion of banning:

 

(1) Purses and handbags. These could easily be used to conceal a cell phone or other electronic device. They also frequently contain paper which could be used to write notes about the hands to pass to other players, and may contain performance enhancing drugs of various sorts.

At the European Championships in Pau, random tables were selected to be searched for electronic devices.

 

Watching my 'women', it was always interesting to see the degree of trepidation that a male Director would exhibit as he approached the selected table. Most of the handbags required an iron man to lift them to the table and it transpired that a cursory glance was apparently sufficient.

 

I don't think any of the women were fined. However in the Open Serbia turned up late for their third match, removed an opponent's hand from the next board (thinking it was the previous one) and had a mobile phone go off whilst the Director was trying to rectify this!

 

Paul

[CSGibson]

Interstingly, a cell phone rang during the quarterfinals of the Spinggolds, 1st quarterr I think. That was just minutes after the director had issued the warning about cell phones at the start of play. I believe the ringing phone belong to one of the directors, or a kibitzer as it came from a non-table area. There was mild laughter. (It could have been from a mini-spingold player as they were in the same room.

 

I did leave my cell phone in the room, despite saying here before the event I would simply turn it off and ignore the ban per se.

I was actually kibitzing at the table this happened at. It was in the Gromov semi, and it was a kibitzer, with all the players looking on amused, and who didn't even bother to take his cell phone outside. The kibitzer merely put it on the table at the edge of the room, turned off. No directors came into the area to figure out what went on.

 

That was not the only cell phone I saw from kibitzers, either, when watching the Spingold. I guess the talk of monitoring stuff was just that - talk.

[JoAnneM]

If there is no good way to actually deter someone who is bent on cheating maybe we should find a way to pre-determine who the cheaters will be and eliminate them from the games beforehand. Perhaps some kind of psychological testing required of all NABC+ entrants or even when you join the ACBL. Or even better, maybe the winners should take a lie detector test after the games. :)

 

All tongue in cheek of course (I already got in trouble in another thread).

[blackshoe]

To quote a French Crusader, ca. 1000 years ago, "Kill them all. The Lord will know his own." :) :)

[the hog]

To quote a French Crusader, ca. 1000 years ago, "Kill them all. The Lord will know his own." -_- :wacko:

This wasn't a French Crusader. It was a Churchman - as usual - It was at the onset of the massacre of the Cathars when the question was "How do we know who are the heretics?"