jillybean Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: IMP ♠ A9852 ♥ KQT9 ♦ Q652 ♣ West North East South - - - 1♠ (1st seat) Dbl 4♥ Pass ? And WHY :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Is this a splinter or preemptive? If you play splinters, this is a splinter. (It should not be a good hand with lots of hearts, since 2♥ is forcing.) Edit: Sorry, 2♥ is very NF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted July 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 4♥ is a splinter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 What's 4H? Or was that part of the question too?If 4H is a splinter I bid 4S as the 5lvl could be very dangerous. For example losing top two diamonds and a slow trump maybe if I need to trump my 4th heart/diamond.If 4H is natural (and preemptive-ish too?) I pass also. It probably isn't this one as my RHO passed, but if it is maybe I would like to raise to 5 or even 6H. Not sure if I like 5H as that may force the opponents into a slam and I wouldn't know what to do then as that could go off with SA and a spade ruff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted July 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 4♥ is a splinter (what else?) the thread title cooperate or not? is the question :blink: 4♥ or 5♣... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 First of all, many players play that, over a double, 2♥ is not forcing (assuming that it is a natural call). So the question as to whether 4♥ is natural or a splinter is not trivial. However, I am sure that an overwhelming majority of players would interpret 4♥ as a splinter bid. Given that it is a splinter bid, partner must have some slam interest. There is no point in splintering without slam interest. Opposite as little as: KxxxxxAKxxxxx we have an easy slam (even easier if partner's heart singleton is the Jack). So, even with the takeout double, slam is certainly a possibility. Having said that, it is hard to cooperate intelligently at this high level. Clearly, Blackwood is of almost no use. The only reasonable call is to cuebid my club void. Then, assuming that partner makes the most encouraging bid possible - 5♦ - I don't know what to do. I suppose I could just bid 5♠ and hope that partner will be able to go on with the right hand. But how will he know that the ♦K is MUCH more valuable than the ♣K on that auction? Given all of the foregoing, I believe that the prudent course of action is to sign off in 4♠. If partner bids again, I will be happy to cooperate (unless he cue bids clubs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 4♥ is a splinter (what else?) the thread title cooperate or not? is the question :P 4♥ or 5♣... Oh, not to mention we may even lose a trump trick or two if partner has some clubs! For example say, QJxx x Axxx KQT9 and that's like a maximum? I'm definitely not going to bid 5♣ because that rates to have partner misevaluate his KQTx holdings or something like that. I would just happily bid 4♠ and hope I make it ^^ Edit: Oh, I am assuming a splinter is like 10-12 right, which is like the standard meaning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 4♠, this is not even remotely close. I have a void, alright, but otherwise just 6 working hcp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Opposite as little as: KxxxxxAKxxxxx This splinter has substantial extras due to the 5th trump, AND has absurdely well fitting cards. This should be enough to convince you that 4♠ is enough (as the 5-level is not safe). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 If 4♥ is a splinter this is a very obvious 4♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Yick. Partner told me that I should go on if I have a full opener excluding points in hearts. I don't think this qualifies. If he had splintered in diamonds I would be tempted. I have lots of losers to get rid of in diamonds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Agree with most of the others. Not clear to me that a jump to game isn't natural. In most of my partnerships I have it agreed as a splinter (helps that 2♦ for me would show ♥ and be forcing). Given that it is a splinter, seems a very obvious 4♠ call. Slam is possible sure, but let's let partner make another move before we cooperate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 I would expect to go down in 4S a fair amount of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 I find bidding 4♠ to be very cooperative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 4S. I agree this is not close; I have far too much in Hs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 I'm cooperating by signing off in 4♠. Obviously, a slam is odds against, the 5-level would often be too high, and we might on occasion go down in game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 Bid 4S and hope that it makes. This hand has gone down in value opposite a heart splinter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 So much wasted in ♥ ..I bid 4♠ and hope to make it. A slam try doesn't cross my mind here and forces us to the 5 level as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 4♥ is a splinter (what else?) I play it as a fit jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 4♥ is a splinter (what else?) I play it as a fit jump. Actually, I would too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 I have a suggestion that is going to be shot down out of the sky as soon as it posts, but: Don't let your opp's takeout doubles change the basic structure of your bidding system.In other words, except for some additional options that the double gives you, ignore the danged thing and just bid as you would have without the double. Yes, I usually prefer that 1NT by resp remain forcing one round as it would be w/o the dbl, 2 level bids are as if no dbl had occurred (or you can use transfer responses to alleviate that issue). So, if you normally play 4H as splinter, why change? If it's a fit raise, you can actually devise a simple distinction between a fit raise with 3 versus 4-card support. If a bid at the 2-level is still forcing one round, then it's available to show a shape raise should partner next bid 4S. Old fashioned? Perhaps. But, the only thing you lose is being able to play in 1NT (chances are it ain't staying there, anyway), and one can resolve that issue & play in 1NT if one plays that a XX shows a hand that normally would have bid 1NT F-1 without the dbl, sort of a negative redbl. [Just some weird, non-mainstream ideas.] Getting back to the issue at hand: If 4H is splinter, then half of your hand is likely wasted. I'm all for trying to describe my hand in as few bids as possible so, therefore, I expect the 4H hand to have values in both minors, making slam unlikely. DHL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 I have a suggestion that is going to be shot down out of the sky as soon as it posts, but: [ugh!] I have another suggestion. DOn't let partner's actual choice of Opening bid change your entire responsive structure. Play systems on as if opened 1NT over all the openings! Then, you cann0ot get confused about what things mean. The only thing you give up is the ability to play at the one-level in a suit, and who does that anyway? :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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