where it goes wrong?

[jaapfr]

[hv=d=w&v=b&n=sqj7hak9d42cj6432&s=sk4h7532dkqjt63c5]133|200|Scoring: IMP

sayc no special agreements

bidding 1!S-p-1NT*-2!D-2!S-2NT-p-??[/hv]

[Guest Jlall]

3D obviously?

[rogerclee]

3♦. This does not bar partner from bidding 3NT.

[Guest Jlall]

3♦. This does not bar partner from bidding 3NT.

it should lol

[mikeh]

3♦. This does not bar partner from bidding 3NT.

Yes, it does.

 

2N suggested reaching 3N if overcaller thought his hand was suitable. 3♦ says it wasn't. To bid 3N now is either a confession that 2N was a stupid bid or a statement that we think partner is a moron who doesn't know how to bid (which also, btw, says that our 2N was a stupid bid since we were never intending to respect the moron's bid). So to bid 3N is insulting to ourselves and, usually, partner as well. I'd rather be barred.

[awm]

Clear to bid 3♦ here.

 

I'm actually not sure that 3♦ should bar partner (although this partner hand should pass for sure). When we initially overcalled we could have a wide variety of things. I think 3♦ suggests a minimum hand with long, strong (but not solid) diamonds. If partner has a fitting honor in diamonds and some fast cards then 3NT could easily be on. I'm envisioning something like:

 

♠Kxx

♥Axx

♦Kx

♣JTxxx

 

opposite

 

♠xx

♥Kx

♦AQT9xx

♣Qx

 

Neither hand is really anything special, but the 3♦ rebid suggests six decent diamonds and you can see that 3NT is excellent with the ♠A almost marked in front of the king. I don't think it's obvious to bid 3NT directly on north's 11-count over 2♠ (give partner some leeway here) nor to raise to 3♦ (which shows more diamonds and less points, in general).

[kenrexford]

3♦. This does not bar partner from bidding 3NT.

Yes, it does.

 

2N suggested reaching 3N if overcaller thought his hand was suitable. 3♦ says it wasn't. To bid 3N now is either a confession that 2N was a stupid bid or a statement that we think partner is a moron who doesn't know how to bid (which also, btw, says that our 2N was a stupid bid since we were never intending to respect the moron's bid). So to bid 3N is insulting to ourselves and, usually, partner as well. I'd rather be barred.

I got to laughing hysterically when I read this post, because inside your comment is the "solution" to a bidding problem that I gave a (very good) partner of mine.

 

I had played earlier with another (very strange) partner of mine and had a hand where I just "felt" that 3NT was right. Partner had made a strange, delayed bid in a strange auction.

 

1♦-P-1♠-P-

2♦!*-P-2♥-2♠

P-?

 

*Alerted as showing hearts.

 

It seemed to me that (this) partner probably had a 2♠ overcall of 1♠ but did not want to bid 2♠ then because he thought 2♠ would mean something else, whatever insanity that "something else" might be. (I was right.) Plus, he was vulnerable and prone to "think about it for a while" in vulnerable auctions.

 

I had a hand with interesting cards. I held something like AJx in diamonds, A109x in hearts, 108 in spades, and Jxxx in clubs. Something like that. Anyway, I asked my (good) partner what to bid.

 

He thought about it for a while and decided (IMP scoring) that 3NT was probably a fair bet. (It turned out to be a great contract, as we also had the benefit of an unwise double.)

 

However, I replied that, although 3NT may have appeared to be the right call, it was actually a terrible call contextually. I knew that partner probably held a very good spade suit, where my 108 would be huge. I also expected partner to have some backup trick source, obviously clubs for RHO to have an apparent trash opening. RHO must have a COV in the reds, something like the actual ♥KQJ/♦KQ that he held. That gave LHO some card or two in spades, and presumably an ill-placed club King or Queen.

 

All great so far; all what my friend also figured out.

 

What he missed, however, was the "deeper" analysis. The partner at the actual table had damned clubs and he wanted to show his damned clubs, dammit! If I had bid 3NT, I am fairly certain that he would bid 4♣, which would be unfortunate. I was also 100% that, if I bid 2NT, he would get the stupid clubs off his chest by bidding 3♣, after which I could then bid 3NT.

 

Sure enough, the remaining auction was 2NT-P-3♣-P-3NT-X-P-P-P. (I forgot to send it back.)

 

So, although I agree 100% that 2NT might be "a statement that we think partner is a moron who doesn't know how to bid," I respectfully disagree that 2NT is necessarily a stupid bid for that reason. LOL On this hand, sure. But, there are times...

[andy_h]

3D obviously?

yeap