Do you reopen?

[Finch]

[hv=d=s&v=n&s=skqj3hak9da1075c82]133|100|Scoring: MP

1NT-3♣-P-P

?[/hv]

 

1NT=15-17.

 

In the E/W methods, 2♣ would be conventional, 3♣ is their only way to show a single-suiter in clubs. Double of 3♣ by partner would have been take-out.

[MickyB]

Yup. Takes a lot of pressure off pard if he knows you will reopen with this.

[inquiry]

Sadly yes... i will open... with a double

[pclayton]

Seriously, if I don't reopen with this hand, is there any hand I wouldn't bid on?

[TimG]

Seriously, if I don't reopen with this hand, is there any hand I wouldn't bid on?

This one?

[gnasher]

Double. Even if this wasn't worth 18 HCP earlier, it definitely is now that we know our high cards are in the right suits.

[jdonn]

Double. If you aren't reopening with this then you might as well play this as a penalty double.

[Guest Jlall]

easy double.

[andy_h]

Wow, I've got some hot cards! X for sure

[han]

Hell yeah!

[655321]

Agree with everyone, double WTP.

[Winstonm]

I am glad it is matchpoints - and my reopening only can lose us one board.

[nige1]

[hv=d=s&v=n&s=skqj3hak9da1075c82]133|100|Scoring: MP

1NT-3♣-P-P

??

1NT=15-17.

In the E/W methods, 2♣ would be conventional, 3♣ is their only way to show a single-suiter in clubs.  Double of 3♣ by partner would have been take-out[/hv]

IMO _X = 10, _P = 4.

[pigpenz]

so if we played 1NT 3♣ double as negative or co-op would we sit

for me it would depend on what are understandings our on 1NT 3bid double penalty or negative or just points

[skjaeran]

Easy double.

If we don't double with this hand, we might as well scrap t/o doubles here - we won't get a hand better suited than this one.

[peachy]

[hv=d=s&v=n&s=skqj3hak9da1075c82]133|100|Scoring: MP

1NT-3♣-P-P

??

1NT=15-17.

In the E/W methods, 2♣ would be conventional, 3♣ is their only way to show a single-suiter in clubs.  Double of 3♣ by partner would have been take-out[/hv]

IMO _X = 10, _P = 4.

I am surprised you gave Dbl the rating of 4. Why so much?

[peachy]

[hv=d=s&v=n&s=skqj3hak9da1075c82]133|100|Scoring: MP

1NT-3♣-P-P

??

1NT=15-17.

In the E/W methods, 2♣ would be conventional, 3♣ is their only way to show a single-suiter in clubs.  Double of 3♣ by partner would have been take-out[/hv]

IMO _X = 10, _P = 4.

I am surprised you gave Dbl the rating of 4. Why so much?

I meant of course *rating for Pass* - one day I might learn to read what I reply before pressing the Send...

[nige1]

IMO _X = 10, _P = 4.

I am surprised you gave Pass the rating of 4.  Why so much?

I give marks just to indicate roughly the relative merit of options that occur to me. Best = 10, Worst = 1. Ratings are meant to be helpful. When I post a problem I'm usually reluctantly aware that I may not have made the optimum choice but desperately seek reassurance that my it wasn't completely daft.

In particular a mark below 5 indicates an option that I judge may work but that will work infrequently or that I dislike.

Even so, these ratings often omit some perfectly sensible alternative by mistake (:

Manifestly they represent fallible opinions :D The arguments of others sometimes persuade me that my original assessment was wrong :( Occasionally, I admit my errors :)

[pigpenz]

if we play 1NT 3♣ x as takeout

what sort of hands does partner have that he wouldnt double on or not bid 3NT?

we are most likely eliminating 6 baggers in the majors or weird 6-5 hands or he would just bid game in a major.

 

From the simulations I ran the best contract is usually 3♦ and it at best is 48%. It looks like to me from the simulations I ran its just best to play 1NT 3minor double as penalty.

 

3♥ 3♠ from the simulations are at best 40% to take 9 tricks and 3nt is more around 20%. So reopening with double is a crap shoot. Doesnt look like there is alot to gain vs defending 3♣. Maybe we just need to change our methods.

[jdonn]

if we play 1NT 3♣ x as takeout

what sort of hands does partner have that he wouldnt double on or not bid 3NT?

we are most likely eliminating 6 baggers in the majors or weird 6-5 hands or he would just bid game in a major. 

 

From the simulations I ran the best contract is usually 3♦ and it at best is 48%. It looks like to me from the simulations I ran its just best to play 1NT 3minor double as penalty.

 

3♥ 3♠  from the simulations are at best 40% to take 9 tricks and 3nt is more around 20%. So reopening with double is a crap shoot. Doesnt look like there is alot to gain vs defending 3♣. Maybe we just need to change our methods.

I truly don't understand how you drew your conclusions from these results, or really how any conclusions can be drawn from them. What % of the time do we have something better than defending 3♣ (no matter what that is) that double will find for us? Including 3♣X going down.

 

I also don't see why partner can't be weak with a 6 card major.

[Finch]

Thanks for all the replies. No-one has actually said it, but you may have guessed that this is a ruling question - the issue was if pass is a logical alternative to double.

 

Under current English regulations (the "70% rule") it clearly is not, as we have an 87% vote for doubling.

[han]

Could you tell us what exactly happened and what the ruling was?

 

I don't think that this poll necessarily shows that pass is not a logical alternative because many people vote after having read the posts. Also, the people who voted may not be similar to the player who had this decision.

[pigpenz]

I truly don't understand how you drew your conclusions from these results, or really how any conclusions can be drawn from them. What % of the time do we have something better than defending 3♣ (no matter what that is) that double will find for us? Including 3♣X going down.

 

I also don't see why partner can't be weak with a 6 card major.

You can draw whatever conclusions you want...but try a simulator and put in all the options that you want for your partner and then let the cards be dealt. Sometimes we have blind spots not saying you have one here, but from the hands i looked at the best results and most frequent were for 3♣ doubled.

 

SO I am saying that there might be more for the double to be point showing more than take out but not with game values. Ask your self what hands would partner have that he wouldnt bid on...modern simulators will let you add up to 20 either or specs per hand.

[Finch]

Could you tell us what exactly happened and what the ruling was?

 

Also, the people who voted may not be similar to the player who had this decision.

Partner hesitated over 3C.

 

The player with this hand protected with a double, leading to a contract of 3S making, defending 3C would have been worse.

 

I can't remember the TD ruling, the AC ruled that pass is not a LA.

 

I (along with various others) am writing a commentary on this and other appeals. It is EBU policy not to name the players involved for this commentary.

 

I don't think that this poll necessarily shows that pass is not a logical alternative because many people vote after having read the posts.

 

When I am doing a poll for the purpose of giving a ruling (rather than merely giving my opinion about a ruling that has already been given) I generally try to keep it 'confidential', so that my respondants do not know what other people's answers are. That takes rather more effort, however, as I also try to poll people outside my immediate circle - this is much quicker!

[gnasher]

If responder's double would have been takeout, don't you reopen on any hand with this shape and two small clubs? KJ32 AK9 A1075 82, for example?