Unalerted polish 2C is cheating

[blackshoe]

I got back into bridge some 20 years after college, during my last tour of duty - in England - in the Navy. When I came back to the States and started playing, I tried to look at opponents' CCs, but it was such a hassle, I gave it. I even had people ask me "why do you want to look at it?"

 

Even more fun was trying to exchange cards with them. :P

 

I still look at opponents' card occasionally at the start of a round - provided they actually have one and it's reasonably accessible. And I still frequently get strange reactions when I do.

[jtfanclub]

We're talking online here, right?

 

Require announcing the system. Have the lazy Americans* actually learn the basics of some systems other than Standard American. When somebody says they're playing Polish Club and opens 2♣, their opponents shouldn't need an alert. In fact, it should only require an alert if the 2♣ opener is different from a standard Polish Club 2♣ opener.

 

I know there's people out there playing something other than Standard American, 2/1, Kitchen (strong 2s, no transfers), Precision, SEF, ACOL, and WJ200x. Those people tend to alert everything. I have never had a failure to alert from somebody playing something other than these, ever. For some reason, the lazy Americans* think that everybody should have to learn every detail of Standard American even if they never plan to play it just so they know what to alert, but they can't be bothered to spend five minutes learning enough of the basic systems so that we don't have to alert. Want to save time? Spend a few minutes learning what the openings and initial responses mean for all of these, so you don't have to ask. That's the way to save time.

 

Frankly, I'm not even sure it's about laziness for the Americans, at least not in face to face. It might just be that they like 1♣ "Alert" "What does that mean?" 2♣ to be clubs, and 1♣ (no ask) 2♣ to be Michaels. God knows it's common enough.

 

For goodness sake, in the U.S. Strong 2s are not alertable. 1♦ openings promisng 5 are not alertable. Somehow, people are able to survive the horror of these. How is it that you can handle 2♥ being strong without an alert but the idea of a 2♣ opening promising clubs as not alertable makes you throw a tantrum?

 

*Yes, I'm an American.

[mycroft]

So, there are many styles of Polish Club, but the main differences seem to be:

- weak NT (and strong NT in 1C) or strong NT (and 12-14 in 1C), and

- 2C (Precision style, strong hands in 1C or Strong, Artificial, and Forcing, 1C is limited).

 

WJ and Nasz are Precision-style, Strefa et al are basically Standard American with 5+ 1D (4 if Roman), 2+ 1C (1 if 4=4=1=4).

 

So, which one is "different from a standard Polish Club 2C opener"?

 

Having said that, I do tend to agree with "know the basic openings of normal systems, and life just gets that much easier".

[NickRW]

As far as I understand it, standard Polish is a forcing, but two way club that includes a weak NT with an intermediate 2C that is similar to, but not necessarily identical to Precision.

 

To open a weak NT and include your strong NT in 1C is Unassuming Club - a very similar system.

 

To open a non forcing 1C and a forcing 2C is no kind of Polish or UAC or any generic two way club system at all - again as I understand it.

 

Nick

[jtfanclub]

So, which one is "different from a standard Polish Club 2C opener"?

 

Having said that, I do tend to agree with "know the basic openings of normal systems, and life just gets that much easier".

I think if you know a Polish Club 1♣ is "Balanced, clubs, or strong", that's probably enough.

 

Think about the changes between a Standard American system with a 15-17 1NT and opens 2♣ with any 9+ tricks and an SA type system with a 10-13 NT that opens a previously mentioned 2047 3 loser hand 1 club. I think that's equal to the differences between the two Polish Club systems, but we still don't need an alert.