Advancing an overcall

[TimG]

IMPs, red v red, you hold ♠KQTx ♥Kx ♦QJxxx ♣Tx. LHO opens 1♣, partner overcalls 1♥, RHO passes. What is your plan? Assume transfer advances of overcalls if you wish.

[pclayton]

1♠ has become an accepted solution with hands like this and thats my bid.

[TimG]

1♠ has become an accepted solution with hands like this and thats my bid.

Is it forcing?

[rogerclee]

1♠ has become an accepted solution with hands like this and thats my bid.

Is it forcing?

I made a post about this awhile ago and eventually became convinced that the most standard agreement is forcing with 5+♠. Whether this is the conclusion of the thread (or even if it's true), I'm not sure.

[ArtK78]

I would bid 1♠. It tends to show 5 but it does not promise 5, IMO. And it is not forcing.

[kenrexford]

1♠ is OK. 2♦ not bad either. I don't know which is better, frankly.

[Guest Jlall]

1♠ is OK.  2♦ not bad either.  I don't know which is better, frankly.

This sums up how I feel, but even 1N has some appeal.

[TimG]

IMPs, red v red, you hold ♠KQTx ♥Kx ♦QJxxx ♣Tx. LHO opens 1♣, partner overcalls 1♥, RHO passes. What is your plan? Assume transfer advances of overcalls if you wish.

After a non-forcing 1♠ or 2♦, does intervenor's 2♥ rebid say anything about strength or just an expression of unsuitability for advancer's suit?

 

What kind of a range would you put on intervenor's simple raise of advancer's suit?

 

Suppose you do play transfer advances, is this too strong for a transfer to diamonds and then a correction to 2♥? Simply not enough hearts? Or, flawed in some other way?

[kenrexford]

1♠ is OK.  2♦ not bad either.  I don't know which is better, frankly.

This sums up how I feel, but even 1N has some appeal.

True (1NT appealing), and very tempting if the opponents play some sort of short club approach.

[mikeh]

I know that BW std, as of a few years ago, used 1/1 advances as nonforcing... I don' t think that has changed, but I may be mistaken. Personally, for me it has always been 5+ spades and forcing 1 round.

 

On the given hand, I would transfer to diamonds and then bid 2♥.. showing roughly this hand type... this constitutes a maximum, but there is nothing wrong with being maximum, altho it always seems to surprise partner B)

 

Obviously this plan will work poorly anytime we belong in spades, but bidding spades will rarely work either....surely he will raise with 3 card support, and then where are we?

[gnasher]

I think whether 1♠ is forcing is a matter of agreement. I prefer to play it forcing, and not promising more than four (unless I'm playing that Michaels includes 4-5 shapes, in which case I think 1♠ should be forcing with five).

 

Playing transfers, I'd still want to bid a forcing 1♠ with this hand. That seems better than transferring to diamonds and then bidding hearts (possibly losing spades) or transferring to diamonds and then bidding spades (possibly getting too high).

 

Even though I often agree to play it, I don't really understand how a non-forcing 1♠ advance is supposed to work, but I imagine that

   1♣    1♥    pass 1♠

   pass 2♥

just shows six decent hearts, with quite a wide range of strength.

 

1♠ is non-forcing by default in the current (2001) version of BWS.

Edited June 30, 2008 by gnasher

[Fluffy]

I think the standard from France that we adopted is that 1/1 is 4+ cards and forcing, 2/1 is not forcing (althou encouraging).

 

This would be an easy 1♠ with 2♦ not unreasonable.

[Codo]

I think the standard from France that we adopted is that 1/1 is 4+ cards and forcing, 2/1 is not forcing (althou encouraging).

 

This would be an easy 1♠ with 2♦ not unreasonable.

100 % the same here

[fromageGB]

This is invitational, and while I don't think partner will have 4 spades I wouldn't want to miss out on a part score or game in hearts, diamonds or no trumps. I'd 2♣ transfer to 2♦ then bid 2♠, forcing partner, and from my failure to bid 2NT implying no club stop and heart tolerance.

 

For me a 1♠ bid shows 5.

[han]

I strongly prefer 1S to be NF, I don't think that forcing matches well with an active overcalling style. I would also bid it here I think.

[TimG]

IMPs, red v red, you hold ♠KQTx ♥Kx ♦QJxxx ♣Tx.  LHO opens 1♣, partner overcalls 1♥, RHO passes.  What is your plan?  Assume transfer advances of overcalls if you wish.

Thanks for the input. For those who bid 1♠, if the auction is:

 

1♣-1♥-Pass-1♠

2♣-Pass-Pass-?

 

I'm guessing you now bid 2♥?

 

Also, for those bidding a NF 1♠ which may be only a four-card suit, what do you expect from a raise from partner?

 

1♣-1♥-Pass-1♠

Pass-2♠

 

I'm guessing that this doesn't promise more than three-card support. What kind of strength does it show? Is there a minimum number of spades you need to hold in order to pass 1♠?

[pclayton]

1. I now double. I doubt we'll get to a 5-3 diamond fit this way, but this seems like the best chance to avoid a silly 4-2 spade fit too.

 

2. This one's easier. You never specified if 1♠ is forcing. I prefer 'virtual force' - as in if pard overcalled on ♥AJTxx and out, he's not obligated to bid. I'm expecting around 8-11/12 for the raise. Better hands cue - or jump. Therefore I pass.

[TimG]

2. This one's easier. You never specified if 1♠ is forcing.

I specified NF.

[TimG]

1. I now double. I doubt we'll get to a 5-3 diamond fit this way, but this seems like the best chance to avoid a silly 4-2 spade fit too.

So, double shows about 4252?

[benlessard]

IF 1S isnt forcing its 2C WTP for me. I see no reason to bid 1S NF here.

 

There are the methods i know for advancing an overcall.

 

1- the simpler = is same level forcing, 2/1 non forcing

easy 1S with this hand

Popular in France and I think Mike Lawrence is suggesting this method in "overcall"

 

 

2- Before the Cue is natural after the cue is transfert. So 2C= diamonds followed by 2H describe this hand neatly. This method is suggested by Marshall Miles and others.

 

 

3- All non-jump advance NF so jumping setup a force. 2C WTP

The Diamond are not good for 2D NF and bidding 1S NF is risking to play 4-1, 4-2 fit for no good reason.

 

4 all non-jump are non-forcing & Jump-shift show fit. So with GF hand you have to start with a cue-bid. Again 2C WTP for me.

 

5- 1 level NF but 2 level forcing. Maybe 2D is ok but i still prefer 2C

[kenrexford]

Double 2♣; bid 2NT after 2♠.

[TimG]

Edit: Oh, sorry, I get it -- 2N if intervenor raises directly to 2♠.

[nige1]

IMPs, red v red, you hold ♠KQTx ♥Kx ♦QJxxx ♣Tx. LHO opens 1♣, partner overcalls 1♥, RHO passes. What is your plan? Assume transfer advances of overcalls if you wish.

Without any special agreement, pass. On the next round, if there is one, you can double 2♣.

[MickyB]

I don't see how it can be right to play 1S as four+ cards NF. Most hands that are happy to play 1S opposite four should be thinking about higher things opposite more spades.