and here's another

[jillybean]

Dealer: North Vul: All Scoring: IMP ♠ AQJ ♥ J653 ♦ Q86 ♣ 753

 

West North East South

 

 -     1♠    Pass  ?

[andy_h]

2S constructive raise, perfect!

[Guest Jlall]

2S is easy with this, not close to a 3 card limit.

[nige1]

Dealer: North Vul: All Scoring: IMP ♠ AQJ ♥ J653 ♦ Q86 ♣ 753 West  North East  South

-    1♠    Pass  ?

IMO

1N seems OK but

2♠ may be better if you employ 5 card majors.

2♣ or even 2♦ may be better if you use a weak notrump.

[han]

Agree with easy 2S, I don't play this as particularly constructive (though better than the 5-count in the other thread).

[neilkaz]

2♠ as this 4333 10 HCP hand is not a 3 card limit raise for me.

[kenrexford]

2♠

[jillybean]

2♠

Ken, is that you? :)

[pclayton]

2♠. No second choice.

[jdonn]

I'll go so far as to say calling this a limit raise is very very bad.

[kenrexford]

2♠

Ken, is that you? :rolleyes:

Well, yeah. But I play 2♠ here as showing a good fragment in diamonds. 2♥ would have shown a good fragment in clubs. Kind of mini-flags. I'll show the spade support later. :)

[han]

LOL

[nige1]

Sorry, Jillybean, I didn't realise that the context was 2/1, about which I know little.

But I too would like to learn. In standard 2/1, what is the difference between.

1♠ - 2♠ and

1♠ - 1N ; 2♣ - 2♠

I suppose the former promises 3+ card support? but is it also stronger?

[han]

The former promises 3-card support. The latter tends to deny 3-card support but one often bids this way with 3-card support and not enough for an honest response.

[kenrexford]

The former promises 3-card support. The latter tends to deny 3-card support but one often bids this way with 3-card support and not enough for an honest response.

Yes.

 

The classic 2/1 GF simple raise is either "constructive" or "semi-constructive," whatever these terms mean. Thus, with a bare minimum simple raise, you bid 1NT...2M.

[fromageGB]

In standard 2/1, what is the difference between.

1♠ - 2♠ and

1♠ - 1N ; 2♣ - 2♠

A very common treatment is that an immediate 2♠ is 3 card support with about 7-10 in terms of high card points, whereas via the forcing NT shows 6-10 points and 2 card support ... OR ... 3 card support and fewer than 7 points.

 

The latter means that over 1♠ 2♠ opener can make a trial bid, but you still get in the raise to 2 with the weaker hand, knowing partner is not going to get too excited.

[han]

With a decent 6-count like Q10x Axxx xx xxxx I would just bid 2S directly. I would only bid 1NT followed 2S with a hand that would likely be a real disappointment for partner after an auction like 1S-2S-4S. With xxx Qxxx Qxx Qxx I would definitely bid 1NT first.

[kenrexford]

With a decent 6-count like Q10x Axxx xx xxxx I would just bid 2S directly. I would only bid 1NT followed 2S with a hand that would likely be a real disappointment for partner after an auction like 1S-2S-4S. With xxx Qxxx Qxx Qxx I would definitely bid 1NT first.

Wild difference between these two.

 

I'd clarify that the Q10x-Axxx-xx-xxxx is probably dead minimum. The Ace and the doubleton are critical.

[fromageGB]

I'd clarify that the Q10x-Axxx-xx-xxxx is probably dead minimum.  The Ace and the doubleton are critical.

Absolutely. While I say 2♠ is typically 7-10 and 3 card support, this 6 count is as good as most 7s. Rules are for guidance : judgement is everything.

[ArtK78]

This is a maximum everyday 2♠ call.

 

If you play constructive raises, this hand is a classic constructive raise.

[jillybean]

Thanks for replies, I’m discovering the subtleties of the 2/1 auctions compared to SAYC