deep Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 system natural 4°Major 1♥-(p)-1NT-(p)2♦-(p) - ? What bid South better 2NT or pass? [hv=d=n&v=b&s=saqh82d10985ck10542]133|100|Team match[/hv]Thanks to all those who will want to answer me and to help me, like always!!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjames Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 I think I would go for 3♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Close between pass and 2♥. I would bid 2♥, not because hearts is a better fit or a better scoring strain (this is IMPs, after all), but it allows partner to make another call if he has a maximum, in which case we can get to 3NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 I agree with Art: 2♥. Partner has shown approximately 11-17 points. 2NT would show approximately 11 points. (Sorry, forgot this a is 4-card majors. Not sure what 2NT would show). Pass would show max. 7 points. So 3♦ or 2♥ it is. After 2♥ partner has more room for finding out if we can play 3NT. After 3♦ he would have to guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Close between pass and 2♥. I would bid 2♥, not because hearts is a better fit or a better scoring strain (this is IMPs, after all), but it allows partner to make another call if he has a maximum, in which case we can get to 3NT. Agree, assuming you're playing 5-card majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 [hv=d=n&v=b&s=saqh82d10985ck10542]133|100|Team matchsystem natural 4°Major1♥-(p)-1NT-(p)2♦-(p) - ?What bid South better 2NT or pass?Thanks to all those who will want to answer me and to help me, like always!!! :)[/hv] IMO 2N = 10, 2♥ = 9, _P = 6, 3♦ = 52N = natural with at least 3 ♦. Playing 4CMs and a weak notrump in an Acol-like system, this hand is nearly worth a two-level response, so 2N is descriptive and not a gross overbid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Close between pass and 2♥. I would bid 2♥, not because hearts is a better fit or a better scoring strain (this is IMPs, after all), but it allows partner to make another call if he has a maximum, in which case we can get to 3NT. Agree, assuming you're playing 5-card majors. The bidding promises 5 hearts, I believe. I am not an acolite, but I have played 4 card majors, and this sequence shows at least 5 hearts.. Frances or other acolites can enlighten me if I am wrong <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Partner has 54 at least and I am passing 2♦ because it seems a very good place to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Me confused. 1NT was forcing, or not forcing? If 1NT was not forcing, then I've already shown 2 hearts, so I bid 3 diamonds.If 1NT was forcing, then I bid 2 hearts to show, well, two hearts. I dunno, it makes sense to me at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 If 1NT was not forcing, then I've already shown 2 hearts, so I bid 3 diamonds. You wouldn't bid 1NT nonforcing holding: xxxxKJxxxQJxx ? 1NT nonforcing doesn't promise 2 card support for partner's major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Hey JTF what are you smoking? 1NT is not forcing in a natural 4-card major system, and it does not promise two hearts. Never heard about that agreement. Are there systems in which a 1NT reply promises 2-card support? Maybe in Vienna ......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Hey JTF what are you smoking? 1NT is not forcing in a natural 4-card major system, and it does not promise two hearts. Never heard about that agreement. Are there systems in which a 1NT reply promises 2-card support? Maybe in Vienna ......... Yeah, I forgot, nobody ever passes any more. Sorry, I'll shut up for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Yeah, I forgot, nobody ever passes any more. I am having a hard time understanding what you are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 I'm very surprised by the answers. 2S as a good D raise looks 100% clear to me. Fwiw playing a nf NT response: 2S impossible = max D raise with cards outside Ds2NT = max D raise with good Ds, often 53D = weakish hand with long Ds It changes a bit if 1NT is forcing:2S max D raise2NT inv in NT3D as above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 I'm very surprised by the answers. 2S as a good D raise looks 100% clear to me. Fwiw playing a nf NT response: 2S impossible = max D raise with cards outside Ds2NT = max D raise with good Ds, often 53D = weakish hand with long Ds It changes a bit if 1NT is forcing:2S max D raise2NT inv in NT3D as above. I completely agree with The_Hog. 2S! showing an good ♦ raise by me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 This doesn't look like a 2S raise to me. Too many black stuff and not enough reds. If I'm playing 4cM, I will bid 2H now leaving room for partner if he wants to invite. 3D is my 2nd choice, and I would not pass at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Not even close to a 2♠ bid. A diamond and about a Q or K short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 system natural 4°Major 1♥-(p)-1NT-(p)2♦-(p) - ? What bid South better 2NT or pass? [hv=d=n&v=b&s=saqh82d10985ck10542]133|100|Team match[/hv]Thanks to all those who will want to answer me and to help me, like always!!! :) To me this is just another in the endless discussion of what does an opening bid show.As a nonexpert I just find discussing what an opening one level or two level bid in first or second seat shows to be extremely important. BWS has yet to define what an opening one level or two level bid is in detail.1) If I open light I think this is a clear 2h bid2) If I open Roth style I think this is clear 2s bid(sound raise)3) If I open something other, I am not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Not even close to a 2♠ bid. A diamond and about a Q or K short. Art do you even read ops? The op is playing a 4 card M system. Persumably the 1NT response shows 6-9. In that context this is certainly a 2S bid! Responder can't even have a Q more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 The only call I feel strongly about is Pass - to me pass here is very bad. Probably I would bid 3♦, although that doesn't leave much room to get to 3NT.2NT seems a bit weird, but we do have very good black suit stoppers, and a fit for one of partner's suits.2♥ is almost an underbid, but does leave a lot of room for partner.2♠ is a bit of an overbid, but we can still get out in 3♦ if partner is very bad. So I would not have a problem with a partner choosing any of the non-pass bids here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Yeah, I forgot, nobody ever passes any more. I am having a hard time understanding what you are talking about. When I was taught ACOL, which was many decades ago, when you had a singleton in partner's suit you bid your suit if you liked your hand and you passed if you didn't. There were hands where you bid 1NT with a singleton because they were too weak to do anything else, but those never made a rebid. So on this auction.... 1♥ 1NT2♦ 3♦ the 3♦ bid showed a hand that bid 1NT because it was balanced, not a hand that bid 1NT because it was unbalanced and weak. Those hands just passed 2♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Not sure if what Deep is playing is Acol. If it is 4card majors with strong notrump, a 2/1 response shows at least 10+ points. The modern style in Acol is 9+ or maybe at least a good 9. So the difference with SAYC is marginal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Not even close to a 2♠ bid. A diamond and about a Q or K short. Art do you even read ops? The op is playing a 4 card M system. Persumably the 1NT response shows 6-9. In that context this is certainly a 2S bid! Responder can't even have a Q more.I did read the OP and I also don't see this as a 2♠ bid. Yes, it is maximum in high card, but it really isn't maximum in diamond support. I would like to hold something like xxx Kx KQxxx xxx for 2♠... a max or near max, with ALL my cards working and GOOD diamonds.. after all, 2♠ is the strongest bid we have.. BTW, if 1N is limited to 6-9 (or 5-9), all kinds of inferences arise. For one thing, just how many raises do we need? Presumably 5-6 point hands are passing, and so are many 7 counts. So we are raising with 7+ to 9: a narrow range of hands.... and we have 2 ways to raise... thus 3♦, to me, is about an 8 count that really isn't fitting very well, while we have the luxury of assigning to 2♠ the strongest meaning. As it is, for the reasons I expressed earlier, this hand looks to me much more like a 2♥ preference than it does any form of diamond raise. Partner is allowed to bid again, and 2♥ permits the maximal bidding space, while not excluding diamonds if he has an extra values 5-5. If he is minimum 5=4 or 5=5, then 2♥ is likely to play just fine, thank you, while 3♦ (opposite 5=4) may fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Not sure if what Deep is playing is Acol. If it is 4card majors with strong notrump, a 2/1 response shows at least 10+ points. The modern style in Acol is 9+ or maybe at least a good 9. So the difference with SAYC is marginal. Wow, things have changed. Or maybe I was mistaught, who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 If we are talking Acol, two hearts will be passed 99.999% of the time. You are choosing the contract at this point unless you raise diamonds ( or make a forcing bid which is almost inconceivable). Partner does not have a 17 count or a 16 count (or even most good 15 counts if the 1NT goes to ten points). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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