Lebensohl problem hand

[TylerE]

♠Q542 ♥T64 ♦Q ♣AT942

 

(2♥) - X - (p) - ?

 

IMPs, None

[cjames]

2♠

[jdonn]

Close but I think 2 is enough.

[Guest Jlall]

Close but I think 2 is enough.

Agree with this, I feel like a little girl though. Partner is never actually 4144 though.

[gwnn]

in practice I'd always invite in spades, no wasted values and all. I realize this is somewhat of an overbid.

[neilkaz]

This is a max 2♠ bid for me. IF PD competes as aggressively vs 2♥ as I do, I don't want to hang him, and he'll likely be able to invite if we have game.

 

Weak 4 card suit, stiff Q of ♦, three small ♥ (PD may have a couple, noting there was no raise from RHO, but not all raise on every 3 card sup. hand, but many do)

[xcurt]

I'll invite. I assume in my Lebensohl methods I can show a 4-card invite exactly thus avoiding a really bad 4S when partner has 31 in the majors.

 

We have no hope of bidding constructively at this point. If partner has AKxx, xx, K..., K... we might be 2 light in 4S. On the other hand, AJxx, xx, A.., KJ.. and AJxx, x, K.., KJ.. offer good play, and stiff, DA in the reds makes 4S almost cold.

 

Positive features on this hand, then, are

 

1: stiff heart

2: DA not DK

3: second club honor

4: SJ

 

Partner can do the same analysis about the major suits, although he doesn't know if I have one good minor and which one, or general power. I'll bet partner makes the right decision often enough and that 3S is -1 infrequently enough to justify my decision.

[the hog]

I would invite with this hand as well. Nice shape.

[nige1]

I'll invite.  I assume in my Lebensohl methods I can show a 4-card invite exactly thus avoiding a really bad 4S when partner has 31 in the majors.

 

We have no hope of bidding constructively at this point.  If partner has AKxx, xx, K..., K... we might be 2 light in 4S.  On the other hand, AJxx, xx, A.., KJ.. and  AJxx, x, K.., KJ.. offer good play, and stiff, DA in the reds makes 4S almost cold.

 

Positive features on this hand, then, are

 

1: stiff heart

2: DA not DK

3: second club honor

4: SJ

 

Partner can do the same analysis about the major suits, although he doesn't know if I have one good minor and which one, or general power.  I'll bet partner makes the right decision often enough and that 3S is -1 infrequently enough to justify my decision.

Agree with xcurl, especially as immediate actions over pre-empts should be sound. Had partner bid 1♠, then your hand,

♠ Qxxx ♥ Txx ♦ Q ♣ AT9xx, would be worth at least a limit raise to 3♠. Luckily, Lebensohl allows you to express that view.

[andy_h]

Close but I think 2 is enough.

ditto

[Halo]

2♥

 

From the auction partner may well have a big hand. I like to bid conservatively in that situation.

[xcurt]

2♥

 

From the auction partner may well  have a big hand.

If you do this the next call is going to be "director!"

 

OK, I kid, you meant 2♠ of course.

 

From the auction partner may well  have a big hand.  I like to bid conservatively in that situation.

 

I would agree with this statement if we had to jump to 3♠ to show our invitational values. But partner will break the Lebensohl transfer if he has the nuts so we really aren't preempting him.

[benlessard]

Im missing the ♠T♠ to invite.

[Codo]

Invite with 2 NT

[Apollo81]

If the choice is between feeling like a little girl for only bidding 2♠, or crying like a little girl in 4♠x on a poor fit, sign me up for feeling like one.

 

Change the pattern to 5314 and I would invite.

[joker_gib]

I would invite with this hand as well. Nice shape.

I would do the same.

 

2NT than 3♠ = invite with 4 trumps in my book.

[foo]

♠Q542 ♥T64 ♦Q ♣AT942

 

(2♥) - X - (p) - ?

 

IMPs, None

I agree with others who say it is close. How close depends on what your agreements are about how aggressive Overcaller can be with their Takeout X.

 

If Overcaller could have an 8 loser hand for their Takeout X, a 2S Advance is quite enough.

 

If Overcaller promises at most 7 losers, this hand is close to an invite. It depends on how sound in other ways you have agreed Overcaller should be. If Overcaller is the one expected to be "pushy", 2S is probably enough. If you are the one expected to be "pushy", and this hand fits your agreements for invites, then you can invite with this hand.

 

But note that unless you like bad scores, only one of you should be "pushy". Which one is up to your partnership.

[nige1]

But note that unless you like bad scores, only one of you should be "pushy".  Which one is up to your partnership.

Past successful partnerships, from Reese and Schapiro onwards seem to fit the pattern described by foo. Nevertheless, IMO it is better if both partners try to emulate each other's "down the middle" judgement. Among the advantages that accrue is that, in a complex auction, when trying to construct partner's hand

• Rather than ponder the question "On what would partner bid like that?" :)
  
• You can instead ask yourself the simpler question "What would I hold to bid like that?" :)
  

[foo]

But note that unless you like bad scores, only one of you should be "pushy".  Which one is up to your partnership.

Past successful partnerships, from Reese and Schapiro onwards seem to fit the pattern described by foo. Nevertheless, IMO it is better if both partners try to emulate each other's "down the middle" judgement. Among the advantages that accrue is that, in a complex auction, when trying to construct partner's hand

• 
   
  
• Rather than ponder the question "On what would partner bid like that?" :)
   
  
• You can instead ask yourself the simpler question "What would I hold to bid like that?" :)
   
  

The problem is that no matter how "objective" or "down the middle" you are as a pair, sooner or later one of you =is= going to get a hand that is "too close to call".

 

If you never upgrade such hands, you will get bad results. If you always upgrade such hands, you will get bad results. Some criteria must exist for deciding what to do, and an agreement needs to be in place so that only one of you upgrades such hands on any given board (since unfortunately they sometimes come in pairs).