CSGibson Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 [hv=d=n&v=e&s=st7652hk9842dt8c8]133|100|Scoring: MP1♣-(p)-1♠-(3♦),X-(p)-?[/hv] Aggressive partner, expert opponents, playing 2/1. Partner's double is penalty. Pass or pull? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Can't imagine playing this as penalty, but if I did this looks like an easy pass given that I have 2 trumps, a king, and a stiff in partner's suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted June 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Can't imagine playing this as penalty, but if I did this looks like an easy pass given that I have 2 trumps, a king, and a stiff in partner's suit. What would you normally play double as there? Extras with no clear direction and convertible values? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Can't imagine playing this as penalty, but if I did this looks like an easy pass given that I have 2 trumps, a king, and a stiff in partner's suit. What would you normally play double as there? Extras with no clear direction and convertible values? Yep and takeout oriented. A hand with 3 spades and extras would be common, but a doubleton spade would definitely be possible as well. I would like to be able to double with: 3415, 3316, 3226, 2326, 2425, 3325, 3136 and 2335, 3235 no stopper when I have extra values. I could think of some 2416 hands I would X with as well (but would often bid 3H with that shape). It seems like a penalty X leaves with with no bid/bad bids very often, and I have never had a penalty X anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 If the double really is penalties, I'd pass, pleasantly surprised by the lengths of my minors. If "penalties" means a balanced 18-count, I'd bid 3♥. For me the double would be takeout, and no more convertible than 1♣ (3♦) dblThat is, you might pass with good diamonds or a hand where you're really stuck, but otherwise you're expected to bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Ditto Justin and Andy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 I have never heard of this double as penalty - I thought the only existing styles are takeout or optional (typically a balanced 18-19 count). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ochinko Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 With both extra length and less than half the strength partner would expect me to have, I am definitely pulling to 3♥. It could be wrong, of course, but I believe it has better chances in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 I've always believed a hand like: ♠x ♥Ax ♦AQJx ♣KQxxxx sits for 3♦ They don't come up a whole lot for starters and there are better uses of the call than penalty. Yes, you'd love to make a thumb through the table double, but it isn't practical to do so. Therefore, pard's double shows more like: Ax Axx Axx AQxxx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Or Ax AQxx xx AQxxx? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Ditto Justin and Andy. ditto han Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OleBerg Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 If my partner had somehow convinced me to play penalty-doubles here, and he then pulled my double, I'd probably pull the plug on the partnership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Therefore, pard's double shows more like: Ax Axx Axx AQxxx. Ok, after I made my post further up I wondered whether really anyone still plays this double as optional, but it turns out Phil does ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 What hands does partner pass: 'up to you, partner' on? Which bid before me? Now, I can 'see' witch hands are possible for partner. So what I do cooperatively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 you have AKxxKJxxAQxxx and open 1NT. partner bids 3NT, to play. pass or pull? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted June 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Partner actually had this hand, having decided (breaking partnership agreement, but reasonable) to open 1 club instead of 1 diamond. [hv=s=saxhaqtxd9xxxcakq]133|100|[/hv] On perfect defense, 3 diamonds goes down several. On likely defense (club lead and continuation, instead of leading hearts and tapping declarer), declarer goes down 1 for a bad matchpoint score (declarer has 2-1-6-4). Does partner's hand look like a penalty double, or more like one of those flexible doubles Justin and others were endorsing? Other comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Does partner's hand look like a penalty double, or more like one of those flexible doubles Justin and others were endorsing? Other comments? Well playing penalty Xs I would make one of those, and playing "flexible" doubles I would make one of those, and this shape doesn't actually exist for my 1C bid, so I guess none of this is surprising :P I would not consider opening 1C to be reasonable either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 If it were Ax AQ10x 9xx AKQx:- Playing takeout doubles I'd double, for want of anything better to do.- Playing "strong balanced" doubles, I'd double, feeling pleased with my choice of methods.- Playing penalty doubles I'd ... er ... um ... yes, what would I do? Please can someone who plays penalty doubles tell us the correct call? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 If you play penalty doubles, you pass penalty doubles. Otherwise stop playing penalty doubles. Of course in my experience, most people who play double as "penalty" aren't playing anything of the sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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