gwnn Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 QJ65437QT842T IMPs, decent opps, bad, but OK p, favorable, RHO deals and opens 1♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 2♠ looks about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 3♠ for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 2H Michaels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 At least 3♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 3S. 2S at favorable Roger? Were you alive before 1960 as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 3C ghestem. Otherwise 3S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 3S. 2S at favorable Roger? Were you alive before 1960 as well? The suit qualities of both suits bother me too much on this particular hand, but I admit I am in a strangely conservative mood. I normally bid 3♠ on this shape (or 4♠ if the suits are good enough). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 What, you don't like the 6543 spots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 3♠. But I bid 2♠ vul. I'm really getting chicken-***** with these hands..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 I'd bid Michaels also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 What, you don't like the 6543 spots? Right, looking forward to picking up ♠2 in a ruffing finesse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 2♥ for me. We have 2 suits in which a save may be available, and a spade preempt eliminates one of them. While I don't like having a longer major in these auctions, this hand is so bad that I'm prepared to make an exception. Spade preempts strike me as masterminding... I don't mind having a surprise source of tricks on the side when preempting with a view to a possible make (ie 4♠ on a 7-4 or even 7-5 hand) but I'm not entering this auction with any great expectations of a plus score :rolleyes: Let's keep partner involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 3S feels right. Sorry pard if we belong in diamonds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 Mikeh, I think that a 2-suited overcall makes it much much easier for the opponents. Of course 2H also takes up much less room. Then there is the flaw that the higher ranking suit is longer and finally, it the 2-suited call may help the opponents when we defend. That's a lot of arguments against 2H, I think the only real argument in favor is that 2H is safer. Most of the time partner will not hear what our second suit is during the auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonottawa Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 Good problem. I'm tempted by 4♠ (especially with weak partner) and 2♥ but 3♠ seems %. Pard will bump on the vast majority of hands that 4♠ is cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 Mikeh, I think that a 2-suited overcall makes it much much easier for the opponents. Of course 2H also takes up much less room. Then there is the flaw that the higher ranking suit is longer and finally, it the 2-suited call may help the opponents when we defend. That's a lot of arguments against 2H, I think the only real argument in favor is that 2H is safer. Most of the time partner will not hear what our second suit is during the auction. Sorry, Han.. I strongly disagree with you. On a number of grounds. 1. Partner may have the minors and not spades... consider a 1=4=4=4 or 1=3=4=5 etc... we belong in diamonds... good luck getting there 2. Partner may have good defence and short spades... say AKxx in diamonds, and take a piece of their contract... only to find that his AKxx is worth one or zero tricks 3. It is very unlikely that showing a 2-suiter will help the opps more than showing a 3♠ hand... usually the main edge declarer gleans from any premptive or shape-showing auction is in the trump suit... missing, say, Qxxx, he hooks partner rather than playing for the drop... he will make this play whether our call is Michaels or 3♠ 4. I doubt that we'd enjoy 3♠ doubled after P P x all pass.. picture dummy with 1=4=4=4 or similar... look, grandma.. what wonderful trump spots we have 5. The main argument in favour of 2♥ is not safety... relative safety is a nice side-benefit, but the real argument is that bridge generally involves two players working together. Unilateral bids are properly part of the game, but work best when the hand actually justifies unilateral action. The advantage of 2♥ is that it describes 10 of the 11 cards you hold in your suits and, at this heat, is within the strength that you promise. 3♠, otoh, describes at most 6 of your cards, and the suit is not anything resembling a true spade preempt: the only reason anyone thinks of 3♠ here is the presence of a side suit... weird how that presence motivates anyone to conceal it while overstating their spade assets. 6. The only advantages to 3♠ lie in an extra level of preemption, altho this is not a one way street.. it will be far more attractive for LHO to nail us at the 3-level than at the 2 level, and partner may choose an inopportune time to take a dive with xxx in spades.... and showing longer spades than are shown by 2♥. However, I defy anyone to argue that 3♠ 'shows' a suit as weak as this one.. or that partner is supposed to bid as if we have this suit. In the meantime, 2♥ shows... wait for it.... spades!!!!!!! In summary, michaels gets us to spades almost everytime it is the right suit, while 3♠ improves on that to a modest degree while also ensuring that we are locked into spades everytime it is wrong. Micheals gets us to diamonds whenever it is findable and best, while 3♠ takes diamonds out of the picture forever... are you bidding 4♦ over 3♠ P P x? Both calls help the opps in play, michaels a little more than 3♠. 3♠ adds a level of preemption but only by significantly increasing the chances of a disaster.. which can be visited upon us in a number of ways. I am not saying that 2♥ is 'clearly' the better call.... I personally think that it is the better call, but I recognize that there will be hands on which 3♠ proves the more effective call. But I do think that it is extremely cursory thinking to reject 2♥ as being warranted only because it is safer :) We have compelling reason to suspect that this hand belongs to the opps, so I am not worried by the possibility that 3♠ will get us to a good game that 2♥ would miss.. firstly, this isn't a hand about bidding a good making game, and secondly, if by some miracle partner has the values for game opposite a 3♠ call on QJ2222, he almost surely has the values for game opposite a micheals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 I'll go with Han. 3♠ and preempt, or Pass and let them discover the bad distribution at their peril. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 3. It is very unlikely that showing a 2-suiter will help the opps more than showing a 3♠ hand... usually the main edge declarer gleans from any premptive or shape-showing auction is in the trump suit... missing, say, Qxxx, he hooks partner rather than playing for the drop... he will make this play whether our call is Michaels or 3♠ I agree with most of what you said mike, but I really really disagree with this (and the main reason I don't like 2H is that it will help the opps way more in the play than I think 3S will). A number of things can happen when declarer knows 10 (and may discover early in the play, 11) of your cards rather than 6 of them. For instance, he may hook partner out of his JACK of trumps which he wouldn't after a 3S bid, or he may cash one trump and start leading clubs etc rather than take a more nornal line. Or he may learn that we have a stiff trump after we have bid 3S and get a club guess wrong. Etc etc, basically I just disagree with this part of your argument because I think you get picked apart way more often in the play when you bid michaels than when you bid 3S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 3♠ for me - the only other option is in fact pass. Michaels with this sort of hand would never enter my mind. I know that 2♥ might strike gold on occasion, but it's still a bid that would make me puke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 I don't like to make Michaels calls with 6 of the major and 5 of the minor. I suppose there's exceptions but this isn't one of them. I'll stick to my preempt. I'd just assume the diamonds stay undisclosed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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