Electronics Ban

[jtfanclub]

3) Given your scenario, I don't mind waiting until the end of the session. Or, until a hotel employee finds me if my family feels it is imperative that I know sooner.

The issue is not, for me, having the phone off for a session. That's already the rule.

 

It's the idea that the ACBL takes no responsibility for the return of my phone.

 

If I couldn't go an hour or two without my phone being on, I couldn't play bridge anyways. Losing my phone permanently would be on the order of losing my wallet, at least when I'm away from phone.

[hrothgar]

For what its worth, I received the following repy

 

Richard:

Thank you for your note regarding the cell phone policy.You have made some excellent points and I will share them with our Chief Tournament Director.You make an assumption that this policy is unpopular.As of today ,that is not the case.We have been asked for over a year to adopt the same policy as the US Chess Federation and the World Bridge Federation.The opposition to the policy has been , surprisingly , very little.

While you do make some very good observations about dealing machines , understand anything is possible with money.We try to hold the cost at a minimum for members and players.Barometer style games are labor intensive and would make the cost of participation rise considerably.We have contemplated this and other fixes that may become part of out process in the future.

Your premise about disrespect could build a case to eliminate speed limits. Our intent is to take away an annoyance to many and eliminate a chance to gain unfair advantage.

I do appreciate the feed back.

Kindest regards,

 

Jay Baum, CEO

ACBL

[mycroft]

I understand the "3.5 hours is fine, 10 (14 if you play Mornings) is not" people - especially because the same people who live and die by their cell phones are also the people who don't have the disposable income to stay at the host hotel, so going back for their cell phone after the session is a non-starter.

 

I think the explanation that this is only for NABC+ Championship events is somewhat ingenious, given the published opinion of at least one of the BoD: "If implementation of the new policy goes well, I expect that it will be extended to regionally-rated events in 2009." (from http://www3.sympatico.ca/jonathan.st/board081.html).

 

However, as I am someone who has to carry a @#$*ing Leash around with me (Sorry, guys, for the obscenity, but that's what they're called) once a month or so, and sees no reason why I should be Leashed the rest of the time, it's not going to affect me. And I'm not "young" any more, but I'm not 40 either.

[pclayton]

Perhaps my biggest fear is if I chose to carry a phone (thus violating the ban) and someone saw it, there would be a de facto assumption of cheating.

[TimG]

Perhaps my biggest fear is if I chose to carry a phone (thus violating the ban) and someone saw it, there would be a de facto assumption of cheating.

Overcoming this fear should be easy, just don't violate the ban.

[olegru]

Overcoming this fear should be easy, just don't violate the ban.

Thanks for useful advice.

Could I use your phone between sessions during the Las Vegas national? ;)

[jdonn]

For what its worth, I received the following repy

 

Richard:

Thank you for your note regarding the cell phone policy.You have made some excellent points and I will share them with our Chief Tournament Director.You make an assumption that this policy is unpopular.As of today ,that is not the case.We have been asked for over a year to adopt the same policy as the US Chess Federation and the World Bridge Federation.The opposition to the policy has been , surprisingly , very little.

While you do make some very good observations about dealing machines , understand anything is possible with money.We try to hold the cost at a minimum for members and players.Barometer style games are labor intensive and would make the cost of participation rise considerably.We have contemplated this and other fixes that may become part of out process in the future.

Your premise about disrespect could build a case to eliminate speed limits. Our intent is to take away an annoyance to many and eliminate a chance to gain unfair advantage.

I do appreciate the feed back.

Kindest regards,

 

Jay Baum, CEO

ACBL

Richard, fwiw I have been informed previously that the real reason barometer play will not happen is simply because of the vast amount of labor and amount of actual boards that it would require, not to mention storage space. While money is always a reason, I don't believe that is what's preventing it.

[Apollo81]

Funnily enough, whenever a cell phone goes off around me (tournament, club game, etc...) it always belongs to some elderly person who always claims that he forgot that the cell phone was in his possession.

My favorite instance of this was playing at the local unit game (50ish tables) where an old guy's phone rang loudly and he answered it. The conversation (heard by everyone in the room) went like this:

 

old guy: HELLO? WHAT? I can't talk, I'm playing bridge. <further conversation I can't remember>

 

At least the director slapped him with a penalty for this.

[hrothgar]

Richard, fwiw I have been informed previously that the real reason barometer play will not happen is simply because of the vast amount of labor and amount of actual boards that it would require, not to mention storage space. While money is always a reason, I don't believe that is what's preventing it.

Hi Josh

 

Thanks for the clarification:

 

One quick comment: Run properly, barometers don't require all that many more board than a "normal" game. Most barometers that I have played in recycle boards throughout the game.

 

While we're playing round 2, the Directors are dealing the boards for round 4... I'd guess that the total number of boards required increases by a factor of three, but its not crippling.

 

It's probably not a coincidence, but most of these barometers also used cloth boards rather than the traditional metal/plastic ones.

 

I'm guessing that experience, organizational competance, and "Not Invented Here"

are the main culprits.

[blackshoe]

I'm guessing that experience, organizational competance, and "Not Invented Here" are the main culprits.

Wouldn't surprise me any.

 

My impression, from posts I've read in various places, is that in Scandinavia, in particular, barometers are the norm at all levels, including clubs. Granted the ACBL is bigger than Scandinavia, both geographically and in terms of number of bridge players, still one would think that if they can do it.... ;) :(

[Elianna]

My letter:

Dear Mr. Baum,

 

I wanted to write to tell you how worried I am about the upcoming cell phone ban.

 

I go to bridge nationals because I enjoy playing in a high level competition, and to see my bridge playing friends. But now with this upcoming ban, my choices seem to be:

1) Don't play in any national event

2) Not to be able to make plans in between sessions

3) Pay money for someone who MIGHT even keep my phone secure, just for the privilege of waiting in line to get it back after each session.

 

I also am concerned about how this ban will be employed. Are we to submit our persons for searches in order to play in NABC+ events?

 

I feel that this new rule is being implemented because there is a "suggestion" that people can use cell phones to cheat. However, there are many easier ways to cheat, especially in events that do not employ screens. It seems extremely ineffectual to ban cell phones in events that do not have screens (such as first rounds of the spingold, or the LM pairs), almost like having a high-tech alarm system on the back door, when the front door is missing.

 

Sincerely,

Elianna Ruppin

 

The response I received:

 

Dear Elianna:

Thank you for your note.The ban on cell phones will take some adjustment by those that choose to play in North American Championships.The decision to do this was done for the protection of the game and the enjoyment of the players. As with chess , golf and other sports and games organizations ,we feel this is a necessary step to insure the comfortable environment for our members and to maintain a level playing field.

We do not anticipate the need to search players.Screens will not deter use of communication devices by players or kibitzers that leave the playing area for any reason.

Our intent is to take away an annoyance to many and eliminate one of the options to gain unfair advantage.

I do appreciate you taking the time to offer your feedback on this issue.

 

Kindest regards,

 

Jay Baum, CEO

ACBL

[TimG]

He has twice mentioned that part of the reason the ban was enacted was to remove an annoyance. Even if it were true, I would not have admitted to it if I were him.

[jillybean]

Elianna, obviously Jay Baum completely missed your point regarding screens. This seems more to be driven by the ringing phone annoyance than to “protect the integrity of the game”

 

The ‘please turn you cell phone off’ rule is not enforced, players wont be searched so this new rule unenforceable. Is the hope to scare people into turning off their phones?

[blackshoe]

The logic is inescapable:

 

1. People bring their cell phones to games.

2. Sometimes those phones ring.

3. This annoys some other people.

4. We made a rule that cell phones should be turned off.

5. Everybody ignored it.

6. So we made a new rule that they must give us their cell phones when they get to the door.

7. When they ignore that, we'll make some other rule.

 

Conclusion: when we want to keep people from doing something, don't make a rule and then punish them for breaking it; just keep making new rules until we find one they'll obey voluntarily.

 

What planet are these people from? ;)

[mike777]

It is logical that if many people break the ban the rule will simply be deleted, I agree but this seems like a simple solution, delete the rule.

 

 

I agree that for more than 50 years many people simply cannot go to tourneys as they must be accessible for work or family issues, this is nothing new. If you cannot be without contact from your job or family for 12 or 24 or 48 hours and the hotel phone cannot handle the issues involved I agree you may not be able to go to tourneys. This is nothing new for most of us.

 

These threads do surprise me that so many people cannot go away on vacation and have no contact with your job for even 24 hours let alone one or two weeks without the boss getting mad at you. Even my Doctors go to the literal ends of the world for a week or two with Doctors without Borders where they are unreachable. I understand if you cannot go to a tourney.

 

I will not even broach the subject that your family cannot agree to let you go 12 or 24 hours without the hotel phone being enough. B)

 

In any event how did this rule work or not work at the USBF trials?

[TimG]

These threads do surprise me that so many people cannot go away on vacation and have no contact with your job for even 24 hours let alone one or two weeks without the boss getting mad at you.

I think if you take a closer look at the threads, there really aren't that many people who claim they can't be out of touch for a day. People claim that they don't want to be inconvenienced or that this new rule is simply window dressing.

[h2osmom]

This isn't an answer, but it is a response to Mike777 question about how the ban worked at USBF trials. Consider the logistics for the Cavendish, or USBF trial, or WBF event. How many people compete in these. Alternatively, consider the Spingold, all 3 flights, and consider how many people compete in that. A coat check type system for the smaller tournaments, or asking a director to carry them, seems doable in the smaller venue, but a logistical nightmare for the Spingold.

[mike777]

This isn't an answer,  but it is a response to Mike777 question about how the ban worked at USBF trials.  Consider the logistics for the Cavendish,  or USBF trial,  or WBF event.  How many people compete in these.  Alternatively,   consider the Spingold,   all 3 flights,  and consider how many people compete in that.  A coat check type system for the smaller tournaments,  or asking a director to carry them,  seems doable in the smaller venue,  but a logistical nightmare for the Spingold.

I agree, as I understand the rule they really want you to leave the phone at the Hotel, period.

 

I agree it now seems the main point is inconvience not life or death or losing a job and that the powers that be do not understand how strongly bridge players feel about this issue. In Fact the CEO has repeatedly said just the opposite, not that many mind at all. Perhaps this is the main issue.

 

As for suggestions on real security, it is clear the CEO has a few now in hand from forum posters.

 

Hopefully they will soon.

[matmat]

In Fact the CEO has repeatedly said just the opposite, not that many mind at all. Perhaps this is the main issue.

How many people has he actually asked?

 

I would love to find that out...

 

 

 

and yeah, i find it absurd that whatshisface totally ignored the implication of not having screens available in the first round of the spingold etc. that Elianna mentioned. maybe things need to be spelled out a little more explicitly for these folks.

[pclayton]

I'm really starting to wonder who is complaining about the cell phones.

[mike777]

I'm really starting to wonder who is complaining about the cell phones.

I know Bobby Wolff wrote alot about cheating, including the whole phone issue, in his new book.

[blackshoe]

I get the impression that Wolff thinks everybody cheats.

[paulg]

In any event how did this rule work or not work at the USBF trials?

The vast majority of the contestants will be used to this ban at WBF events, and it also replicates the conditions of contest at the Olympiad.

 

I guess most could afford to stay at the host hotel too.

 

Paul

[geller]

I get the impression that Wolff thinks everybody cheats.

I've only met him a few times over many years and briefly at that, but I can't imagine he thinks "everyone cheats." Perhaps he thinks that it's important to eliminate possible ways in which improper conduct could occur.

 

As a non-participant in ACBL tourneys for about the last 20yrs, I don't have "a dog in this fight." After reading this thread I have a suggestion though. Running a tourney is in some sense like developing a new software product. Before you release your product to the market you run through a series of "beta tests," where real or potential customers test-drive the product before its general release.

 

The cell-phone ban is like a new software product (in some senses). I fully agree with the stated reasons for the ban, but I also agree with the posters who point out the problems with loss of access, etc.

 

My suggestion would be that at the summer nationals the ACBL should suspend the cell-phone ban except for the last three rounds of the Spingold (quarters, semis and final). These are the rounds for which security is most important anyway, and there are only 8 (then 4 then 2) tables. If the ban works out OK it could gradually be expanded to other events at future nationals, while problems that occur could be ironed out before larger scale implementation.

 

-Bob

[JanM]

My suggestion would be that at the summer nationals the ACBL should suspend the cell-phone ban except for the last three rounds of the Spingold (quarters, semis and final).  These are the rounds for which security is most important anyway, and there are only 8 (then 4 then 2) tables.  If the ban works out OK it could gradually be expanded to other events at future nationals, while problems that occur could be ironed out before larger scale implementation. 

A cell phone ban was enforced for the last 3 (or perhaps 4, I've forgotten) rounds of the Vanderbilt in Detroit, with no problems.

 

And in response to the question about the cell phone ban and the USBF Trials, it was interesting that this year far fewer people brought their cell phones to the playing area than have in the past. We didn't actually count the number, but all of us who were involved agreed that many fewer cell phones were left with us and therefore we believe that many more were left in hotel rooms.

 

The only problem we had with the ban this year was one kibitzer who has yet (to my knowledge) to pick up his cell phone :P.