MFA Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 [hv=d=s&v=b&w=sqxht8xxdak3ckt8x&e=shqj9dqt87xxcaq42]266|100|Scoring: IMP(4♠)-p-(p)-Xall pass[/hv] 10 tricks, 8 spades and ♥AK. 5 of a minor is cold, if they don't fint the heart ruff, and they won't since hearts are Axxx to Kx. Bad luck or...? NS are strong players. Any difference if south is generally known as a tight preemptor or as a loose preemptor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 If I was both of the E W players I would have passed it out. I guess that's an example of the SJ Simon 'best result possible' vs 'best possible result' type of thing. I wouldn't find my game but at least they wouldn't be doubled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Agree with West's initial pass over 4♠.East's double seems to me to be mandatory. West's final pass? I like a 4NT bid, but I admit I might be influenced by knowing the result. I expect East to hold a singleton spade for the double, we have 3 working cards and fits in some of partner's suits. If partner is unusually weak, they might make 4♠. If partner is unusually strong, we might make slam (but OK, I don't expect to bid a slam.) But I could certainly see myself passing 4♠X as West, and going -790 also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 I hate the idea of pulling with the west hand, I think passing is definitely percentage. As far as east's X, I have really mixed feelings. It just feels wrong to me to X with so little defense...but people keep telling me you have to X with this...... I dunno, I am not convinced. It's definitely good when partner pulls but it seems like they make too often, possibly with an overtrick, when he passes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 If I was both of the E W players I would have passed it out. I guess that's an example of the SJ Simon 'best result possible' vs 'best possible result' type of thing. I wouldn't find my game but at least they wouldn't be doubled. Same here. I suppose those that like double on the east hand pull more 4 level doubles than the forums crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 This would have been passed out had partner and i been playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 The double was cards showing I guess, at least optional. So it was an overbid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 I would pass WTP on both of these hands, and if East doubled, I think pulling with the West hand is completely nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFA Posted June 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 I would pass WTP on both of these hands, and if East doubled, I think pulling with the West hand is completely nuts.I think that "passing wtp" in the last seat is definitely an underbid. :P Well, I'm not convinced if it's right to double or not. One could argue that paying out 790 instead of 620 is at worst 5 imps but often less. In our match, south opened 1♠ with his AKJxxxxx, Kx, x, Jx at the other table, and EW got to 5♦ easily.Sure there could be overtricks and redoubles, but... I had the west hand and felt I had to pass. Had I known that south preempts like my great great grand dad used to do, I might have considered pulling - playing my partner for something like the hand he had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Perhaps South doesn't normally preempt like your great great granddad used to, but he felt that the hand was a 4♠ call. I can't really fault him for that. There is something to be said for opening AKJxxxxx and a side K with a vulnerable 4 bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 I had the west hand and felt I had to pass. Yes, for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Doesn't this depend on what the double means? If double is just cards, and could be a flat 16 count with 3 spades, then West has a WTP pass, and East's double is doubtful. If double is takeout (my preferred method, flat 16s with 3 spades have to pass out 4♠ here), then East's double is clearcut, and West has a problem. Maybe West still has a pass, but at the very least he no longer has a WTP pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 If double is takeout (my preferred method, flat 16s with 3 spades have to pass out 4♠ here), then East's double is clearcut, and West has a problem. Maybe West still has a pass, but at the very least he no longer has a WTP pass. That's my preferred style too, but I think West should still pass even if the double is takeout. He has enough high cards to expect to beat 4♠, and five of a suit might have no play. It's dangerous to double on a hand like East's, with a void and not much defence. This is very committal, but I think East should bid 4NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 It's dangerous to double on a hand like East's, with a void and not much defence. This is very committal, but I think East should bid 4NT. 4-3 fits doubled at the five level with no assurance of even half the deck are dangerous too........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 This would have been passed out had partner and i been playing. Same for me ! And I also pass the X with west hand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 I think the X is a terrible overbid. passing the X is clear cut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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