good hand after 2D multi

[kgr]

[hv=d=e&s=skqxxxhdajcajtxxx]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

(2D!)-?

2D= multi, 6 card major and weak or something strong.

What do you bid now or later?

(If you pass it will probably go: (2D)-P-(2H)-p-(p) or (2D)-P-(2S=H preempt)-p-(3H)

[rogerclee]

4♣ LM wtp.

[kgr]

4♣ LM wtp.

I considered this.. but is it also over multi 2D...what major do you promise then and isn't it better to wait till 2H comes back to you?

[jtfanclub]

4♣ LM wtp.

Seems like waiting until 2♥ comes around to you and bidding 3♥ would show this hand better.

 

I agree with kgr that given your hand, your partner will have no clue which major you have if you bid clubs immediately.

[jdonn]

4♣ LM wtp.

Seems like waiting until 2♥ comes around to you and bidding 3♥ would show this hand better.

 

I agree with kgr that given your hand, your partner will have no clue which major you have if you bid clubs immediately.

Seems to me like you are waiting for 4♥ to come back to you. I'm not horribly bothered that partner won't immediately know which major I have.

[mike777]

<!-- ONEHAND begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td> Dealer: </td> <td> East </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Vul: </td> <td> ???? </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Scoring: </td> <td> MP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <span class='spades'> ♠ </span> </th> <td> KQxxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='hearts'> ♥ </span> </th> <td>  </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='diamonds'> ♦ </span> </th> <td> AJ </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='clubs'> ♣ </span> </th> <td> AJTxxx </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- ONEHAND end -->

(2D!)-?

2D= multi, 6 card major and weak or something strong.

What do you bid now or later?

(If you pass it will probably go: (2D)-P-(2H)-p-(p) or (2D)-P-(2S=H preempt)-p-(3H)

3C

 

I hope this shows a good unbalanced hand with clubs and not a balanced hand with both majors.

I only hope my WC partner will be able to understand my nonexpert bid.

I hope my WC partner knows I try to not bid on junk.

 

 

Second choice 2S I hope this shows spades and a good hand.

[effervesce]

We play X as an opening or better hand with a 5+ card major. Partner responds as if we opened a multi. Whatever partner bids, I bid and rebid clubs.

[pclayton]

4♣ LM wtp.

Seems like waiting until 2♥ comes around to you and bidding 3♥ would show this hand better.

 

I agree with kgr that given your hand, your partner will have no clue which major you have if you bid clubs immediately.

Seems to me like you are waiting for 4♥ to come back to you. I'm not horribly bothered that partner won't immediately know which major I have.

I think its difficult for LHO to bounce to the 4 level since LHO needs both majors to do so. I'm more concerned about something like:

 

2♦ - pass - 2♠ - pass

3♥ - 4♣

 

and whether or not this would be construed as LM.

 

Perhaps its better to bid a direct 4♣ and short-circuit these questions.

[gnasher]

I think its difficult for LHO to bounce to the 4 level since LHO needs both majors to do so. I'm more concerned about something like: 

 

2♦ - pass - 2♠ - pass

3♥ - 4♣

The auction that gives you the most problems is

   2♦ 2♠

   4♥

I think opener should strain to bid 4♥ here, in order to teach second hand not to pass with a good hand.

Edit: you could alleviate this problem to some extent by agreeing that passing and then bidding 4♠ over 4♥ shows spades and a minor.

 

If you are going to agree to pass over a Multi with a good hand, it's safest for this to be a hand with heart length. If LHO is short in hearts, the worst they can do to you is

   2♦ 2♥

   2♠

They are only able to preempt you when LHO has length in both majors, when perhaps you won't mind not being able to show your hand.

 

Edit: This can lead to other attractive sequences:

  2♦ pass 2♥ pass

  2♠ 3♣

shows 5♥ and 4+♣.

Edited June 3, 2008 by gnasher

[gnasher]

4♣ as clubs and a major works well enough; 4♦ as diamonds and a major slightly less well.

 

I think this is an improvement:

  4♣ = clubs and a major

  4♦ = one-suited in a major

  4M = two-suited with diamonds.

[jtfanclub]

Edit: you could alleviate this problem to some extent by agreeing that passing and then bidding 4♠ over 4♥ shows spades and a minor.

I would always assume that passing and then bidding a suit against a transfer pre-empt shows a 2-suiter.

 

This includes 2♦ P 2♠ P 3♥ 3♠.

[helene_t]

I like Gnasher's method, will discuss this with one of my pds.

[kgr]

[hv=d=e&n=sjtxxhaqxxdkxc98x&s=skqxxxhdajcajtxxx]133|200|(2D!)-3C-(P)-3NT

(P)-4S-All Pass[/hv]

This were NS hands and the bidding. Making 4S+2.

- North thought that South's bidding showed something like a 6(7)-4. Does it rather show a 7-4 or a 6-5?

[Guest Jlall]

4♣ as clubs and a major works well enough; 4♦ as diamonds and a major slightly less well.

 

I think this is an improvement:

  4♣ = clubs and a major

  4♦ = one-suited in a major

  4M = two-suited with diamonds.

This is not clearly better since you lose the option of bidding leaping michaels and then bidding again when you are very strong. This is much more likely to be useful than being able to show a 1 suiter and then bid again imo.

[gnasher]

This is not clearly better since you lose the option of bidding leaping michaels and then bidding again when you are very strong.

That's true. With a strong major-diamond two-suiter you'd have to start with a double and hope to be able to show both suits.

 

This is much more likely to be useful than being able to show a 1 suiter and then bid again imo.

The idea behind my suggestion is that, facing diamonds and a major, advancer gets to find out what the major is before deciding whether to make a slam try.

 

The ambiguity after 4♦ showing a one-suiter isn't a problem, because you can play Multi-style advances.

[Guest Jlall]

This is not clearly better since you lose the option of bidding leaping michaels and then bidding again when you are very strong.

That's true. With a strong major-diamond two-suiter you'd have to start with a double and hope to be able to show both suits.

 

This is much more likely to be useful than being able to show a 1 suiter and then bid again imo.

The idea behind my suggestion is that, facing diamonds and a major, advancer gets to find out what the major is before deciding whether to make a slam try.

 

The ambiguity after 4♦ showing a one-suiter isn't a problem, because you can play Multi-style advances.

No, I understand.

 

I just meant that from reversing them, you reverse which hands you can show and then bid again with. I was just saying that showing a good 1 suiter and then bidding again is less likely to be beneficial then showing a 2 suiter and bidding again, thus you are losing something in that exchange. Did not mean to imply that was the gain you were looking for, just establishing that there was a loss.

[effervesce]

I think its difficult for LHO to bounce to the 4 level since LHO needs both majors to do so. I'm more concerned about something like: 

 

2♦ - pass - 2♠ - pass

3♥ - 4♣

The auction that gives you the most problems is

   2♦ 2♠

   4♥

I think opener should strain to bid 4♥ here, in order to teach second hand not to pass with a good hand.

Edit: you could alleviate this problem to some extent by agreeing that passing and then bidding 4♠ over 4♥ shows spades and a minor.

 

If you are going to agree to pass over a Multi with a good hand, it's safest for this to be a hand with heart length. If LHO is short in hearts, the worst they can do to you is

   2♦ 2♥

   2♠

They are only able to preempt you when LHO has length in both majors, when perhaps you won't mind not being able to show your hand.

 

Edit: This can lead to other attractive sequences:

  2♦ pass 2♥ pass

  2♠ 3♣

shows 5♥ and 4+♣.

I agree, but for a different reason-I had a similar hand after partner opened 1NT (mini) - 2♦ (multi-landy). I passed, and LHO passed! leaving them in 2♦ going -1.

 

Passing with strong hands against a multi is very risky if LHO feels that passing might cause the auction to be passed out when we have game.