Another lead problem...

[Guest Jlall]

9xxx AT9xx x Axx

 

You are second seat r/w and it goes:

 

p p 1D 1S

2N 3D 3N all p

 

Your lead

[OleBerg]

A spade.

 

If I can include attitude (non-interest), I will.

[ArtK78]

♠9.

 

Assuming that partner wins trick one, he may be able to work out whether it makes sense to continue spades or to switch.

 

Leading a heart initially may be the winning action, but I am hoping to get more than one shot at the right answer.

[pclayton]

There's two possibilities:

 

1. A spade. This caters to declarer having a single spade stopper, 6 diamonds tricks, a double heart stopper, and the need to develop two tricks.

 

2. A heart. This caters to a single heart stopper, a double spade stopper, 6 diamonds, and something in clubs.

 

Every time a lead a spade, declarer's hand is KQx, Kxx, xxx, QJxx. When I lead a heart, declarer has Kxx, KQx, xxx, QJxx.

 

My sense tells me that declarer needs the spade tricks more than the heart tricks, so I'm firing a low heart. I think its something of a guess, but I'm sure many will say a ♠, wtp?

 

Only try this with an understanding pard. I'm sure KMB is fine either way.

[jtfanclub]

♠9.

 

Assuming that partner wins trick one,

 

Tough to believe that they bid this way with only one stop between them. Oh well.

 

Sorry.

[fachiru]

Before leading, it would be nice to know what would a X of 3nt by prd. mean: lead ♠ or don't lead ♠. (I don't even know if there is a std. or consensus here in the expert field)

Without any aggrements (on the X or lack of), I'll go with a ♥ lead.

[kenrexford]

Not sure. Heart sounds right, but this is a guess, IMO.

 

That said, I'm not real happy with this development and wonder if I might have done something to ease my pain, or even take it away entirely.

 

We just discussed in another thread the concept of fit bids without jumps. Had I been able to do that, I think a 3♥ call might have been better. If partner holds the magic cards in hearts necessary to defeat 3NT, we probably also make 4♠. Even if partner cannot bid 4♠, the heart bid would likely nip the 3NT in the bud and we would be declaring 3♠.

 

Now, we have a WAG as to what lead to make where it is likely that one of three suits will work, but only one.

[Guest Jlall]

3H is a nice option if it means that, but neither you nor partner are mentally handicapped you do not play it that way.

[kenrexford]

3H is a nice option if it means that, but neither you nor partner are mentally handicapped you do not play it that way.

Mentally handicapped?

 

Pray tell...

 

What would 3♥ show?

[andy_h]

snip

 

2. A heart. This caters to a single heart stopper, a double spade stopper, 6 diamonds, and something in clubs.

My instinct tells me that also.

I hate leading..

[kenrexford]

I felt the need to do a little research on this, just to assure myself of exactly how retarded this question actually is.

 

After reviewing my Robson-Segal, I cannot imagine how this auction is not a classic case of a fit non-jump bid. I am a passed hand, which is a classic situation for a fit non-jump, for starters. The Robson-Segal guidelines in this situation is any new suit call, typically after a major overcall by partner, at the three-level or higher. We are at that level. My RHO has just bid 2NT, as a passed hand, which is a fairly strong indicator of at least fragmentary diamond support and values. I have a stiff in diamonds, a feature that partner often will be able to visualize anyway, especially if I make a fit non-jump bid. I have a good 5-card side suit to mention, with control of both other suits and four trumps. So, 3♥ seems to be about as classic as you can get.

 

Had I done this, 3NT would not likely be bid on a runner diamond suit if Opener has a heart problem. If partner has something like QJxxx-KQx-xxx-xx, a POC, he can probably bid 4♠ successfully anyway. Instead, I show the stiff diamond, which helps nothing. Plus, BTW, had I bid 3♥ and Opener 3NT, partners double probably has meaning now, like to lead a heart.

 

So, I'll play with retarded people like Robson and Segal. :unsure:

[655321]

4th best heart.

 

Usually I would just lead partner's suit WTP, especially with 4 card support...

But declarer is likely to have two spade stoppers. Also, it is very unlikely that either opponent has 4 card hearts, so if partner has some help they may have only one heart stop.

 

Still, I don't feel hugely confident about this, and I will be ... keenly interested... during the play to see how a spade lead would have worked. :unsure:

[nige1]

2nd seat r/w: ♠ 9xxx ♥ AT9xx [D] x ♣ Axx

(_P) _P (1♦) 1♠

(2N) 3♦ (3N) AP

Your lead

IMO ♥A = 10, ♠ = 9, ♥x = 7

Partners turn a bit deaf when you try explain why you didn't lead their bid suit to defeat the contract. Here however, he may be more forgiving when you start with ♥A because if he doesn't smile encouragingly, you can switch dutifully to ♠.

♥A may also work when RHO has say

♠AQx ♥K ♦ xxxx ♣Qxxxx

[gnasher]

I'm mentally retarded to the extent that I play 3♥ as a fit bid. You boys seem to save a lot of bids for hands that might have preempted but didn't.

 

I'm not sure that I'd bid 3♥ with this hand though - hearts aren't the only feature of my hand, and anyway I'm worth 4♠. I'd bid 4♦, showing a high card raise to 4♠. The "high card" part is a slight stretch, but two aces are two aces.

[nige1]

I'm mentally retarded to the extent that I play 3♥ as a fit bid.  You boys seem to save a lot of bids for hands that might have preempted but didn't.

 

I'm not sure that I'd bid 3♥ with this hand though - hearts aren't the only feature of my hand, and anyway I'm worth 4♠.  I'd bid 4♦, showing a high card raise to 4♠.  The "high card" part is a slight stretch, but two aces are two aces.

Like gnasher, our loony team also play splinters, fit jumps, and so on. Here, for us, 3♥ would be a fit non-jump. Robson would argue that all other interpretations of this passed-hand bid are loony :) If you consider this hand suitable for 3♥ and your partner then doubles 3N, it would suggest that you lead your suit rather than his

[jdonn]

I'm mentally retarded to the extent that I play 3♥ as a fit bid. You boys seem to save a lot of bids for hands that might have preempted but didn't.

True, better to have 8 bids that raise partner and 2 bids that don't....

[Guest Jlall]

3H is a nice option if it means that, but neither you nor partner are mentally handicapped you do not play it that way.

Mentally handicapped?

 

Pray tell...

 

What would 3♥ show?

3H would show........wait for it........wait for it........HEARTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IF YOU HAVE SPADES YOUW ILL OMG RAISE SPADES!!!!!!!!!!! WOWwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest Jlall]

I'm not sure that I'd bid 3♥ with this hand though - hearts aren't the only feature of my hand, and anyway I'm worth 4♠. I'd bid 4♦, showing a high card raise to 4♠. The "high card" part is a slight stretch, but two aces are two aces.

This is an excellent way to hang partner. He overcalled at the one level and your RHO bid 2N behind you when you have no spade honor. Most posters seem to think this shows two spade stoppers, which would imply 2 spade losers.

 

Seriously I don't understand how you can drive to game vulnerable when you are getting a poor split (as in, if partner has AKJxx you have a loser for sure, AQxxx is probably 2 losers, etc), and they have opened and bid 2N. Sure LHO could be on a psyche or semi-psyche, and probably is, but partner can bid game if you can make it over your 3D bid. What hands are you worried about missing game opposite?

[Guest Jlall]

If partner has something like QJxxx-KQx-xxx-xx, a POC, he can probably bid 4♠ successfully anyway.  Instead, I show the stiff diamond, which helps nothing.

lol??? How would 4S be "successful"? Why do you write so many words when you say ridiculous things like partner can probably bid 4S "successfully" with this hand. Yeah going for 500 or if you get very lucky 200 or very unlucky 800, is very successful when your opponents cannot even make a game. What a joke. And why does 3D show a stiff diamond lol? What would you bid with xxxx Axxx Axxx x? 3C now is a splinter not a fit non jump lol? What planet are you from? I see why you try to talk in a language people cannot decipher, becuase when you do try to offer an actual example hand you show how utterly moronic everything you are saying is.

[kenrexford]

3H is a nice option if it means that, but neither you nor partner are mentally handicapped you do not play it that way.

Mentally handicapped?

 

Pray tell...

 

What would 3♥ show?

3H would show........wait for it........wait for it........HEARTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IF YOU HAVE SPADES YOUW ILL OMG RAISE SPADES!!!!!!!!!!! WOWwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Starting with the first laughable comment.

 

You ignore Robson-Segal, of course. However, you also miss the reality that the bid actually made was 3♦. Now, I understand that 3♦ "is a cuebid" and therefore raises spades. However, you obviously opted to use a call other than a spade bid to raise spades. In case you missed the concept, 3♥ is also a bid, other than spades, that raises spades.

 

The fact that noted experts advocate this method, although not necessarily an authoritative statement that nothing else is possible, might have toned down a reasonable man. Know one?

 

A 3♥ bid that "shows hearts" is a rather stupid agreement. I would hope that the definition of your calls have more meat to them than to identify a suit that qualifies as "natural" by GCC standards. That mere definition would be "4+ hearts, 0-37 HCP, shape unknown."

 

I would expect that you could ascertain that a "fit bid" also, get ready, sit down for this, shows hearts. However, some of us actually have more to the meaning of our bids than simply that the suit is 4+ in length.

[kenrexford]

If partner has something like QJxxx-KQx-xxx-xx, a POC, he can probably bid 4♠ successfully anyway.  Instead, I show the stiff diamond, which helps nothing.

lol??? How would 4S be "successful"? Why do you write so many words when you say ridiculous things like partner can probably bid 4S "successfully" with this hand. Yeah going for 500 or if you get very lucky 200 or very unlucky 800, is very successful when your opponents cannot even make a game. What a joke. And why does 3D show a stiff diamond lol? What would you bid with xxxx Axxx Axxx x? 3C now is a splinter not a fit non jump lol? What planet are you from? I see why you try to talk in a language people cannot decipher, becuase when you do try to offer an actual example hand you show how utterly moronic everything you are saying is.

God there are a lot of ignorant comments here.

 

One concession. You are accurate that the hand provided, the 8-count, lacks game potential. The diamond-club length was changed late. I meant the 8-count QJxxx-KQx-xxxx-x. The addition of the spade Ace (replacing a small spade) would allow the xxx-xx minor pattern. Are you aware of hand typos occurring? I concede my ability to do this.

 

However, some of your other comments are a tad strange.

 

"Why does 3♦ show a stiff diamond?" It does not. Not sure what you mean.

 

"What would you bid with xxxx-Axxx-Axxx-x?" 3♦.

 

"3♣ is now a splinter and not a fit non-jump?" I'm getting really confused. No -- it would in fact be a fit non-jump. Are I missing something here? You seem to be ascribing to me strange and bizarre agreements that I have not claimed and then shooting them down as strange and bizarre. I'll concede the strangeness and bizarre nature of these hypothetical agreements, which I do not have.

 

"What planet are you from?" Uh, I cited Robson-Segal. Where they live.

 

"I see why you try to talk in a language people cannot decipher, becuase when you do try to offer an actual example hand you show how utterly moronic everything you are saying is." I'll try to speak more slowly for you. Everyone else so far seems to understand. Maybe try asking them.

[Guest Jlall]

3H is a nice option if it means that, but neither you nor partner are mentally handicapped you do not play it that way.

Mentally handicapped?

 

Pray tell...

 

What would 3♥ show?

3H would show........wait for it........wait for it........HEARTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IF YOU HAVE SPADES YOUW ILL OMG RAISE SPADES!!!!!!!!!!! WOWwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Starting with the first laughable comment.

 

You ignore Robson-Segal, of course. However, you also miss the reality that the bid actually made was 3♦. Now, I understand that 3♦ "is a cuebid" and therefore raises spades. However, you obviously opted to use a call other than a spade bid to raise spades. In case you missed the concept, 3♥ is also a bid, other than spades, that raises spades.

 

The fact that noted experts advocate this method, although not necessarily an authoritative statement that nothing else is possible, might have toned down a reasonable man. Know one?

 

A 3♥ bid that "shows hearts" is a rather stupid agreement. I would hope that the definition of your calls have more meat to them than to identify a suit that qualifies as "natural" by GCC standards. That mere definition would be "4+ hearts, 0-37 HCP, shape unknown."

 

I would expect that you could ascertain that a "fit bid" also, get ready, sit down for this, shows hearts. However, some of us actually have more to the meaning of our bids than simply that the suit is 4+ in length.

LOL...what comment did you want me to make about robson and segal??

 

Do you want me to poll the top 100 players in the world and see how they interpret 3H? Do you really think that a majority of them, or even a significant amoutn of them, would play it as "fit nonjump"?

 

The fact that one nut who writes a book plays something doesn't make it a standard or even good treatment. As you well know, anyone can write a book about bridge! Obviously Robson is a good player but the fact that he plays something doesn't make it good or standard. Yet you poison a perfectly good thread, as always, by suggesting some idiotic thing such as a 3H non fit jump on a lead problem. I don't really give a **** if you would make a non fit jump when I obviously was not playing them with my partner at the time. It is just an aside that I think it is an utterly terrible agreement to have.

 

 

I ignore your comments about "robson and segal" because they are not relevant to anything about the OP.

 

What is the point of your last post? You don't like that I said I think 3H shows hearts because thats not well defined? You are like a stupid ****ing lawyer trying to bog the enemy down in paper work. If you speak the english language you will understand what is meant by 3H shows....HEARTS. If you are just a *****bag trying to play a semantics game to derail a thread, you will make posts like your last one.

 

To summarize:

 

3H would not be a fit nonjump

This is a lead problem

If you have nothing to add then stop making your idiotic posts

Stop trying to play some semantics game, it is stupid

[Guest Jlall]

Ken, are you set on ruining every thread with your garbage? You are worse than FREE VIAGRA posts

[Guest Jlall]

One concession. You are accurate that the hand provided, the 8-count, lacks game potential. The diamond-club length was changed late. I meant the 8-count QJxxx-KQx-xxxx-x. The addition of the spade Ace (replacing a small spade) would allow the xxx-xx minor pattern. Are you aware of hand typos occurring? I concede my ability to do this.

Every word you post is a typo I guess. I am supposed to assume that when you say something idiotic (always) that it is a typo? Give me a break. If you are posting on a bridge board and you post a hand to prove your point the burden is on you for it to be correct. It is easy to say stupid things and call them a typo though.

[Guest Jlall]

"I see why you try to talk in a language people cannot decipher, becuase when you do try to offer an actual example hand you show how utterly moronic everything you are saying is."  I'll try to speak more slowly for you.  Everyone else so far seems to understand.  Maybe try asking them.

Yes everyone who is a bridge expert understands that you are not and you spew nonsense regularly. I fear for the less experienced bridge players who read your crap and think there is actually anything meaningful in them. Like posting that you would bid 3H non fit jump in a lead problem.

 

This is a standard thing on this forum because everyone is so bad at bridge that they cannot actually answer a question posed.

 

Question: What do you lead after this auction?

Answer: In my system I play something that is non standard so I would have made a different bid so I would not have had this lead problem.

 

Question: This was the auction, what do you bid now?

Answer: I play a different system altogether that caters specifically to this hand so I would not have this problem.

 

Question: Do you bid slam or not on this auction?

Answer: Partner has shown 2 of the top 3 and a non trump cue and an empathetic splinter so I bid this.

 

Why do you think people post hands? They want input on what others would do in the same situation. It would not be the same situation if a different system was played that catered specifically to the situation. It does not help to say "if you had different methods this wouldn't be a problem." Yet everyone wants to just say this is what I play, look at me, I'm awesome!

 

I DO NOT CARE WHAT STUPID METHODS YOU PLAY, I WANT TO SEE WHAT OTHER ADVANCED OR EXPERT PLAYERS LEAD ON THIS AUCTION. WHY IS THAT SO HARD?

 

If you want to discuss non fit jumps you are welcome to create a new thread and you and every other genius on the board can discuss how awesome they are. I want to see what people lead. Yet you, as always, derail threads over and over and over and over with your system and your crazy ideas of what bids mean.