TylerE Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Posted for public consumption....will get more complete as time goes by: 100k PDF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 ah, cool. maybe I translate my strong diamond notes and post them here :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted May 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 It's a good process to go through. While we currently have a set of notes, it was just a few pages I'd thrown together in a word processor. Many auctions were basically just assumed. Partner and I are on the same page (usually) on these undiscussed auctions, but I plan on codifying all of them. I'm also making a few changes to the system to improve it. For instance, we're currently playing a 5+ 2♣ opening, in the new system I've gone to the more modern 6+ 2♣, with the (43)15 hands going into the 2♦ opening. The version I posted is the 'book' version, setup for printing in the 6x9 'trade paperback' format. Once I finish the notes, I'm going to go through one of the online print-on-demand sites and have a few copies printed up to have around. This is surprisingly affordable, on the order of $7 per book + shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 This looks really good. One thing I am curious about: the forcing 1M rebids after 1♣-1♦. Is this a common treatment among players of modern precision? I thought Kokish was the common treatment. Maybe I could modify my Precision FD file to cover the basics of it. Not promising anything at this stage but it looks as if many things are the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted May 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 I've seen it in other systems before. Probably not standard. Making the bids forcing makes it easier to handle some hands, mainly big two suiters, since you're going to get a rebid. Kokish can work with this system, certainly, but in the base system I've tried to avoid artificiality like that unless I see a real systemic need. In the regular partnership I play this system with twice a week, we don't play kokish, and I rarely miss it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilgan Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 I am a huge fan of kokish, but can play without it if need be. It doesn't matter often, but every once in a while it can be huge (partner played 1 NT with 21 hcp making 1, for a very good board this past weekend). The 2 things that really jumped out at me were NT ranges and TAB on suit acceptance. I think the precision today book suggests an initial CAB on suit acceptance, and that seems a lot better. You instantly get a feel for whether slam is worth exploring or if game is the max. Also, the 13-15 NT range (that it sounds like you are playing) seems a bit old fashioned. Its low enough most people have a penalty X available, strong enough that the preemptive value isn't as huge as a 10-13, but you still give up finding the 4-4 major fits on a lot more hands. Your system notes (so far anyways) are way easier to read than mine. Good luck on finishing them up :P Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted May 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 The 2 things that really jumped out at me were NT ranges and TAB on suit acceptance. I think the precision today book suggests an initial CAB on suit acceptance, and that seems a lot better. . Also, the 13-15 NT range (that it sounds like you are playing) seems a bit old fashioned. No, Precision Today recommends tab first. While the main section will use standard TAB/CAB, I have an alternate relay version of CAB I am going to include compresses the responses considerably, often allowing asks in all 3 suits BELOW 4NT, especially when responder's suit is spades. The system uses a 10-12NT when NV in 1st-3rd. I intend to include a full writeup of our penalty runouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilgan Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 More to confirm that I'm not crazy than to argue good/bad: Page 174 of precision today (section on transfer responses): "When you have a fit for partner's long suit, we recommend that your transfer acceptance bids carry the message that you have a fit - AND you want to know about the aces and kings in his hand. (Beta)" So I guess its actually called Beta rather than TAB or CAB. They recommend 0-2 in the first step which I hate though, as there are some hands where 2 makes slam worth exploring and 0 makes the 5 level dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbforster Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Perhaps I missed it, but do you include 5332 as a balanced shape? I know I like to include this in the 1♣-1♠-1NT relays and there's plenty of space to do so if you play around with the relays. (example here - see the bottom of the page for the balanced relays). Certainly I like treating 5m332 as balanced; for 5M332 I could go either way. When I played a similar system to your, we used accepting a suit transfer as a CAB with the first step being 0-1 controls (A,K=2,1). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted May 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 More to confirm that I'm not crazy than to argue good/bad: Page 174 of precision today (section on transfer responses): "When you have a fit for partner's long suit, we recommend that your transfer acceptance bids carry the message that you have a fit - AND you want to know about the aces and kings in his hand. (Beta)" So I guess its actually called Beta rather than TAB or CAB. They recommend 0-2 in the first step which I hate though, as there are some hands where 2 makes slam worth exploring and 0 makes the 5 level dangerous. Ahh, ok, I'll admit it's been a while since I really dug in PT. It's the book I learned from, but I've since moved on, ya know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted May 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Perhaps I missed it, but do you include 5332 as a balanced shape? I know I like to include this in the 1♣-1♠-1NT relays and there's plenty of space to do so if you play around with the relays. (example here - see the bottom of the page for the balanced relays). Certainly I like treating 5m332 as balanced; for 5M332 I could go either way. When I played a similar system to your, we used accepting a suit transfer as a CAB with the first step being 0-1 controls (A,K=2,1). No, I'm not putting 5332 hands into the relay, for now. I'll admit it's not the most efficient scheme, but it works well, for one responder will rarely bid a suit he actually has, so wrong siding is minimized. This does mean the NT is occasionally 'wrongsided' when responder has 5 clubs, but at the same time it's often right for the weaker hand to have the lead come up, so I don't lose much sleep over it. I looked at the relay you linked to. While it certainly appears playable, it's a bit more complex that I want for this system. I want the basic system to be something that an intermediate player can sit down and play comfortably. Also, as a guiding systemic principle, I try to limit the hands as much as possible as quickly as possible, tends to work better in competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrecisionL Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 This looks really good. One thing I am curious about: the forcing 1M rebids after 1♣-1♦. Is this a common treatment among players of modern precision? I thought Kokish was the common treatment. Maybe I could modify my Precision FD file to cover the basics of it. Not promising anything at this stage but it looks as if many things are the same.Actually, 1♣ - 1♦ - 1♥/1♠ = 4+ cards and one round force is what Kathie Wei (Sender) and Judi Radin played and published in their book ONE CLUB COMPLETE, 1981 (copies still available from Baron-Barclay). I have played this approach ever since. I like it better than the Kokish rebid of 1♥ for 19/20+ hcp hands. Also, mini-splinters were detailed in this book. In our previous system, Transfer Precision Club, acceptance of the transfer is a Beta reply (for As & Ks) to settle the slam question early. First step is 1-2 controls. Now, in ULTRA CLUB, we show distribution with relays before making a Beta ask later in the auction. This works really well. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted May 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 New version uploaded, http://www.tylere.net/tyler-precision.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effervesce Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 The new version seems to be right-justified rather than left to me. Anybody else see the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 you're using a huge-ass font... not that there is anything wrong with that :). which class file are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Looks to me like it's justified - by which I mean both margins are smoothed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted May 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 I'm using the memoir class. Font is 12pt. This is the 'book' formatted version, so the pages are 6" x 9", not 8.5" x 11". For best viewing set your PDF reader to "two up continuous", with the first page on the right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted May 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 http://www.tylere.net/tyler-screen.pdf There's a version that's a bit more optimized for online viewing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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