zero

[Al_U_Card]

Only all the real warships in San Diego and in Manilla....(and all the ships at sea that left Pearl Harbor in the weeks leading up to the attack) that took the war on full throttle while the shipyards around the US went into wartime high gear.

 

You think that the Japs would have not attacked if they could have? :o What war were you watching? :blink:

 

Seriously, take a good look at the events and the info that came up from the FOI requests....it is crystal clear. FDR even baited the Japs into thinking that the US was ripe for an ass-kicking in the pacific.... :)

[mike777]

I did not read this thread but is this another

Blame usa for all wars after 1938?

 

bad usa bad usa

 

I can only assume some large minority has the "propensity" towards violence and not silly:

 

 

DUTY...HONOR ...COUNTRY

 

Where officers learn that service to lower ranks is the greatest honor and duty.

NOT A DUTY TO BLIND OBEISANCE

 

forget service....just kill.....

 

no kill...kill ..kill.

[Al_U_Card]

Interesting counter argument you have there, Mike.

 

Not.

[Al_U_Card]

I did not read this thread but is this another

Blame usa for all wars after 1938?

 

bad usa bad usa

 

I can only assume some large minority has the "propensity" towards violence and not silly:

 

 

DUTY...HONOR ...COUNTRY

 

Where officers learn that service to lower ranks is the greatest honor and duty.

NOT A DUTY TO BLIND OBEISANCE

 

forget service....just kill.....

 

no kill...kill ..kill.

Your duty is to humanity.

 

Your honor comes from how well you protect life.

 

Country is a made up illusion so that you will not remember the above.

 

If attacked, defend. No more is needed.

[mike777]

Al I always get lost in your logic, is our first duty to humanity or to the selfish gene? At times you seem to argue for humanity at other times for the selfish gene.

 

At the very least you seem very lucky to live in a world where you or your loved ones never had to struggle for food or water. Or at the very least where your family were actually never attacked.

 

I do not live in that world.

 

If you and your family's duty is to protect humanity when it is attacked then ty for your families service in defending darfur, iraq, tibet, afghanistan or wherever your family is doing its duty, protecting humans when they are attacked, ty.

 

In any event is your first duty to humanity or your loved ones or something even greater or have you never faced that choice?

 

As for honor coming from protecting life, well humanity often does not protect life...just by existing we seem to kill all kinds of life. So you say you do not believe in honor?

 

In any event however your logic defines your duty and your honor if you are fullfilling it God Bless you. ty.

[han]

I did not read this thread but is this another

Blame usa for all wars after 1938?

 

bad usa bad usa

 

I can only assume some large minority has the "propensity" towards violence and not silly:

 

 

DUTY...HONOR ...COUNTRY

 

Where officers learn that service to lower ranks is the greatest honor and duty.

NOT A DUTY TO BLIND OBEISANCE

 

forget service....just kill.....

 

no kill...kill ..kill.

No it's not one of those threads.

[blackshoe]

What is "duty"?

[Al_U_Card]

Based on his usual rantings, I believe it is pronounced "doodie" :lol:

[Al_U_Card]

Al I always get lost in your logic, is our first duty to humanity or to the selfish gene? At times you seem to argue for humanity at other times for the selfish gene.

 

At the very least you seem very lucky to live in a world where you or your loved ones never had to struggle for food or water. Or at the very least where your family were actually never attacked.

 

I do not live in that world.

 

If you and your family's duty is to protect humanity when it is attacked then ty for your families service in defending darfur, iraq, tibet, afghanistan or wherever your family is doing its duty, protecting humans when they are attacked, ty.

 

In any event is your first duty to humanity or your loved ones or something even greater or have you never faced that choice?

 

As for honor coming from protecting life, well humanity often does not protect life...just by existing we seem to kill all kinds of life. So you say you do not believe in honor?

 

In any event however your logic defines your duty and your honor if you are fullfilling it God Bless you. ty.

Not unusual, getting lost, when your eyes are closed. But that explains the references to the dream state....

 

If you are in trouble, try to fix the cause.

 

If you are troubled, try to find the source.

 

Where you are, now, and what you are to do depends on circumstance and opportunity. Crusades are for christian soldiers led by zealots. Jihads are for muslim soldiers led by fanatics. Note the common elements and if you are smart and lucky, stay the hell as far away as you can from them. And once you are in that far away place, do the best you can to keep them from infringing on that most inalienable right that you possess (for now, at least, but that appears to be slipping away too).

[luke warm]

al, i think mike asked some valid questions... it's no shame to say you have no answers to them, but if you do it might benefit our understanding if you'd share them

[Al_U_Card]

I kind of liked Han's response to that field of inquiry....and as much as I like to extemporize....Mike's questions seemed pretty rhetorical to me.

[luke warm]

well i suppose that's as good a reason to refuse to answer them as any

[Al_U_Card]

I love a challenge, so here we go (no guarantee of satisfaction, however)

 

is our first duty to humanity or to the selfish gene?

 

Duty implies a structure and order to follow. If we are talking survival, then self-preservation is the first duty of man.

 

is your first duty to humanity or your loved ones or something even greater or have you never faced that choice?

 

Answered above. The result also benefits humanity and our loved ones so it applies reasonably well. I face that choice with every breath.

 

So you say you do not believe in honor?

 

I did not say that expressly but it is quite possible that Mike inferred that.

 

Honor is an illusion sponsored by an external imposition. Integrity is my preference.

 

That's it for his "questions". Do you have some too, Jimmy?

[luke warm]

just a couple of clarifications... in your 1st answer, when you use "man" do you mean individually or collectively? the answer impacts whether or not question #2 was indeed answered, but can possibly invite the "inconsistent" criticism

 

as for #3, you did say "Your honor [integrity] comes from how well you protect life." which implies you think such a thing as honor exists... so i don't think mike inferred it so much as he read it in your post... but if you prefer integrity to honor, that's fine... i would like to know what you mean by "life" though, and i think that gets to what mike was really asking re: the selfish gene... life as it applies to you and yours, or to humanity in general?

[Al_U_Card]

Looks like someone has some serious time on their hands.... :D

 

1) Of the humans that make up mankind.

 

2) Nope. Honor is illusory. Integrity is a aspect of our existence.

 

3) Life, the process by which we experience and improve our conscious level of evolution. (The physical part (ie genetics) is beyond my scope for this discussion.)

 

Interesting subject though. :)

[jtfanclub]

had the japanese, after pearl harbor, sailed east toward california what would have stopped them? was there a back-up non-mothball fleet waiting to defend the mainland?

All of the Pacific aircraft carriers (Saratoga, Enterprise, and Lexington) were not at Pearl Harbor at the time of the attack. The battleships that were sunk were too old and slow to keep up with the carriers, and would have had a great deal of trouble finding anything to fight without them.

 

Is it possible that the U.S. High Command knew about the attack but did nothing to stop it except clear out the carrier forces? Sure. Is it possible that the U.S. knew that bin Laden was going to try to hijack a number of passenger jets and crash them into critical targets, and did nothing to stop them? Sure, why not?

 

Is it possible that the Japanese never actually went to Pearl Harbor, and instead the U.S. government blew up their own battleships and killed 4200 people while at the same time somehow keeping this all secret, AND forcing the Japanese to take credit? Um, no.

 

But if you think that's silly, you should hear what some people think about 9/11.

[Al_U_Card]

Opportunism is a word that politicians are well-acquainted with.

 

Secrecy is a term that generally only serves the interests of the few.

[luke warm]

ok, now i'll combine the two posts

Al I always get lost in your logic, is our first duty to humanity or to the selfish gene? At times you seem to argue for humanity  at other times for the selfish gene.

1) Of the humans that make up mankind.

As for honor coming from  protecting life, well humanity often does not protect life...just by existing we seem to kill all kinds of life. So you say you do not believe in honor?

2) Nope.  Honor is illusory.  Integrity is a aspect of our existence.

In any event is your first duty to humanity or your loved ones or something even greater or have you never faced that choice?

3) Life, the process by which we experience and improve our conscious level of evolution. (The physical part (ie genetics) is beyond my scope for this discussion.)

and i think mike's last bit was

If you and your family's duty is to protect humanity when it is attacked then ty for your families service in defending darfur, iraq, tibet, afghanistan or wherever your family is doing its duty, protecting humans when they are attacked, ty. In any event however your logic defines your duty and your honor [sic - integrity] if you are fullfilling it God Bless you. ty.

that part you can address if you want