How low do you go?

[jillybean]

Dealer: South Vul: All Scoring: IMP ♠ KJ42 ♥ AQ843 ♦ T ♣ 754

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     -     ? 1st seat 

[Guest Jlall]

I would pass, in general I don't open marginal hands that will often have rebid problems. If I could open flannery I would.

[whereagles]

justin, step on to the blackboard and write 100 times

 

"i shalt not mention the f-convention"

 

yeah, pass. 1♥ playing precision :)

[ArtK78]

Glad to see others think as highly as Flannery as I do.

 

I would pass this hand unless my partnership agrees to open light. With my regular partner, this is a full opening bid nonvul in 1st and 2nd seat (we open all 10 counts).

 

Many years ago, I played on a semi-regular basis with Richard Colker. Richard and I played Flannery. Our agreement was the usual - 11-15 HCP, 4/5 in the majors, etc. However, Richard would often open 10 counts and "good" 9 counts with Flannery. Invariably, I would wind up declaring the hands, which often presented some challenges (as a regular partner of mine is fond of saying after going down in an ambitious contract, "too many high-card points were offside"). And, invariably, we got good scores on those hands.

 

Finally, I renamed the convention the Colker 2♦ opening - a purported 11-15 but in reality about 9-12.

[inquiry]

I would open 1♥ with most partners I normally play with. With a pickup partner who would not expect this light an opening bid, I would tend to pass.

[bill1157]

I guess the obvious possibility is to open 1S then pass anything except 2D.

[pclayton]

I don't consider a 4513 a rebid problem like I would a 4522. I've been experimenting with 5-4 10 counts with all the HCP in the two long suits and it seems to be a winner so far.

[ASkolnick]

Precision: Open

Light Style (Zars Count): Open

KS: Pass

2-1: Pass

 

But I don't think this is really a right or wrong answer.

[Guest Jlall]

I don't consider a 4513 a rebid problem like I would a 4522. I've been experimenting with 5-4 10 counts with all the HCP in the two long suits and it seems to be a winner so far.

It's not as terrible of a rebid problem, but it's a worse rebid problem thatn 54 with 5S and 4H which I would definitely open (because then you get to bid your suits, and they're both majors). Obviously this is a marginal hand so you have to just draw a line somewhere, for me I open it only with a 5cM and a lower 4 card suit, I'm sure others draw the line somewhere else.

[Guest Jlall]

Glad to see others think as highly as Flannery as I do.

What can I say, I used to work at a place where two of the top players in the company loved flannery :)

[pclayton]

Glad to see others think as highly as Flannery as I do.

What can I say, I used to work at a place where two of the top players in the company loved flannery :P

This is the most blatant case of workplace harassment I've ever seen :) :P

[neilkaz]

I guess the obvious possibility is to open 1S then pass anything except 2D.

The obvious possibility of opening light and then passing PD's forcing bid will mean that you're often searching for new PD's ! How do you know that PD doesn't have clear game force opposite your light opener here ?

 

Why open 1♠ when 4-5 in the majors and planning to pass ? I just don't get it, and caution you, that if what you meant was serious (I can't imagine) you'll be looking for new PD's constantly in any decent BBO game.

[neilkaz]

Zars....when in doubt I use them as a guideline.

 

We have 10 HCP so that's 10 + 3 for the controls (A=2 K=1) + 9 for the number of cards in my two longest suits + 4 for the difference between my longest and shortest suit.

 

26 Zars and no flaws and my HCP are in my long suits as well so this is a bare minimum opener for me in 2/1 GF, unless playing with most pickups who'll usually bury me for opening light.

 

When you open like this, PD has to be aware that he shouldn't force you to game with a scattered quacky likely missfitting 12 count, and should be cautious of a putrid 13 count.

 

1♥ opposite most of my regular PD's .. neilkaz ..

[rogerclee]

I would pass. I don't like to open marginal hands vulnerable. I would not be surprised to find partner over-competing (even 2♥ may be over-competing) for down a lot, and I don't want to encourage partner to bid the usual pushy vulnerable game.

 

How do you feel after 1♥ - 1NT ; 2♣ - P or 1♥ - 1NT ; 2♣ - 2♥?

[Free]

Depending on the system: 1♥ if playing light openings, otherwise 2♥ (or 2♣ or 2♦) to show a weak hand with 44+M.

[P_Marlowe]

Pass, wait and see.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[jdonn]

It took me a long time to realize that Flannery is a good convention :angry: but I like my weak 2♦ bid too much.

[kenrexford]

Although I understand the issue of whether to open light generally or not, I'm not so sure that I get some of the objections to opening this specific hand. BTW -- I open this hand.

 

One proposed problem is the rebid problem. I don't get it. You open 1♥ with a respectable suit and only have a "rebid problem" if partner declines to bid 1♠ (which covers a lot of gound) or to raise hearts. If he bids a forcing 1NT, 2♣ is easy.

 

The idea that 4♠/5♥ is more troubling than 5♠/4♥, although initially sounding reasonable, seems backwards to me, in reality. If I open 1♠ and rebid 2♥, we are at a relatively high level with only two possible strains in consideration and no exploration of the like third. What I mean is that, with say 5413 pattern, we have a difficult time getting back to 2♣ after a 2♥ bid. With 4513, I only reach the club bid, which is lower than 2♥, after already checking and discarding the idea of a spade fit. That seems better to me.

 

Plus, I'm more concerned about 1♠...2♥ having a wild range than I am about this auction. One of the Achille's Heel problems is 1♠-P-1NT-P-2♥-P-? Is Opener 6-4? 5-5? Junk? Values? In contrast, 1♥-P-1♠-P-2♠ is smooth.

 

So, I actually think that the rebid problem is worse when 5♠/4♥, not in the sense of "what to bid" but in the sense of "what does partner do with this information."