Skinny spade suit

[PedroG]

Hi All,

 

A hand from last night, I'm sitting in the south position:

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=s9764hkq5dk94cj54]133|100|Scoring: IMP

Partner open and RHO overcall's:

1♣-(1♦)-?[/hv]

 

What would have been my best response in this position?

 

At the table I decide to show my spades my partner think I should have bid NT.

 

Ty All

Pedro Gil

[helene_t]

I would bid 1♠. A notrump contract probably plays better in partner's hand if he has the queen or jack of diamonds, and if he has four spades I see no reason to prefer notrumps to a spade contract.

 

But p may support spades on a 3-card if he doesn't have a diamond guard, and with such bad trumps a 4-3 fit may be nasty. So 1NT is not unreasonable either.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

it is either 1S or 1 NT, I slightly prefer 1NT, but

not much.

 

If you bid 1 NT you say, that, given the diamond

stopper and the 4333 shape, the hand is better

suited in a NT contract, a reasonable statement.

Another adv. you a finished with the description

of the hand, ... you did also limit your hand.

The risk is, that you loose the spade suit.

 

If you bid 1S you point partners attention to your

spade suit,

The adv. is, you wont loose the spade suit, and the

partnership may find it easier to fight for the partscore

if you happen to have a fit.

... Helen pointed out, that certain partnerships have

agreed, that a raise with 3 cards is ok, which would

make 1S unattractive.

Similar you may get a spade lead, if we happen to loose

the partscore fight and partner si on lead, not likely

but still an option.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[the hog]

1NT is a pretty obvious bid. You have poor spades and a very sterile distribution.

[Codo]

1NT is a pretty obvious bid. You have poor spades and a very sterile distribution.

1 spade on a 4333 with the weakest possible 4 card spade suit?

 

I think I would even prefer double to 1 Spade, but 1 NT is obvious. You limit your hand at once and you show your structure.

[655321]

1♠ for me.

[PedroG]

TY all,

 

And thanks for the answer, just to throw in a case for the 1♠...

 

It's not impossible to find partner with

 

AKJ8 AT2 J K9732

 

This has very good chance to make game in spades and not so good to play in NT.

 

So if I bid NT and partner has a decent spade suit we might never get to find it.

 

Pedro

[neilkaz]

1NT is a pretty obvious bid. You have poor spades and a very sterile distribution.

Agreed as likely nothing to ruff with my hand. I'm not chasing after a 4-4 ♠ fit here with these weak trumps 4333, and really may hate life should I catch a 3 card raise.

[jtfanclub]

I'm amazed there's any debate on a 3-3-3-3 distribution like this.

 

If your partner has lots of spade honors, it doesn't help. You aren't ruffing in your hand, and ruffing in his hand is with good spade tricks. Calling this a 4 card spade suit can get you into real trouble.

[jtfanclub]

AKJ8 AT2 J K9732

 

This has very good chance to make game in spades and not so good to play in NT.

You think you're gonna make 4♠ with this, huh?

 

I'll give you 5-1 odds that you're going down.

[PedroG]

AKJ8 AT2 J K9732

 

This has very good chance to make game in spades and not so good to play in NT.

You think you're gonna make 4♠ with this, huh?

 

I'll give you 5-1 odds that you're going down.

Hi,

 

Not having made great analisys, unfortunatlly last version of DEAL has not yet a build for windows... But I made a on the fly hand that made it, maybe it's the 1 part...

 

Just out of curiosity I made my partner a even poor spade suit

 

QJ85 AT2 J KQ932

 

Again I think it's a normal holding I would expect from partner.

 

Pedro

[the hog]

And pedro, what happens if you partner raises you to 2S on:

 

Kxx

Axxx

x

AJTxx

 

And please don't tell me this is not a 2S bid.

[rogerclee]

Clear 1NT. This is right on values, and I do NOT want partner raising on 3.

[jdonn]

I would certainly have bid 1NT without the overcall. However the overcall makes it a closer decision (a point I think many are missing) since the opponents are going to make a good lead into the suit in which I have just one stopper. I have no strong feelings I guess, either could work or not work.

[kenrexford]

1NT.

 

Partner is allowed to bid his hand properly and show four spades when he has extras. I'm allowed to raise that spade bid.

[andy_h]

1NT

[PedroG]

And pedro, what happens if you partner raises you to 2S on:

 

Kxx

Axxx

x

AJTxx

 

And please don't tell me this is not a 2S bid.

Hi,

 

Yes partner did well raising with 3 cards, and that fear or that possibility was what made me make the post in the first place...

 

I may be choosing the wrong opp's hands, but all the time I'm making those spade contracts :) and most os the time also 1NT... look at the layout I've setup for you hand... Maybe I'm making opp's hands to benefit the spade contract, but I really made them random, and changed a bit to make east a decent overcall...

 

[hv=n=sk85hat72djcat932&w=sa3h9863d6532c876&e=sqjt2hj4daqt87ckq&s=s9764hkq5dk94cj54]399|300|[/hv]

 

<-Makeable contracts->

C D H S NT

= = = = ==

N 3 - 2 2 1

S 3 - 2 2 1

E - 1 - - -

W - 1 - - -

[Finch]

I'm really surprised by some people's strength of feeling.

 

I would bid 1S here, but I don't strongly object to 1NT and I wouldn't categorise either as 'obviously wrong'.

 

One occasional partner always used to bid 1NT on this type of hand. Recently he swtiched to bidding the major, saying "it's not because you complained, it's because I kept getting bad results from bidding 1NT"

 

Here are some reasons not to bid 1NT

- If partner has some holding in diamonds such as Jxx or Qx, 1NT will be better played by him

- if partner has some boring 4324 weak NT you are likely to be better in 2S than 1NT

- if partner raises to 2S with 3 spades and a singleton diamond, that's going to be a better spot than 1NT (although it's not very likely that partner has a minimum, they have a 9-card diamonds and LHO can't bid). The best spot is a club partial, but we aren't going to get there either way.

[dburn]

I think you should double. If you play that as 4-4 in the majors - well, I don't think you should play that way.

[skjaeran]

I think you should double. If you play that as 4-4 in the majors - well, I don't think you should play that way.

I couldn't double since that shows 4+♥ to me... I'd bid 1♥ showing 4+♠.. :D

Playing standard I think this is close, I'm inclined to bid 1♠, but don't disagree with 1NT.