Pet Peeve - Travelers

[andy_h]

The standard in Australia which I like (note I am in NZ not Australia) is:

 

4S 9 for 4S down one

 

4S 11 for 4S up one

 

etc

Yeap! Though when I was in NZ quite a number of New Zealanders were getting cranky at me for writing it that way as it looked too bizarre and would really prefer me to write 1 and circle it when it was 1 off.

[JoAnneM]

Why would you do it anyway but what is customary and accepted in your club? Who cares what is "correct". As long as the people that you are dealing with, and not the whole world, know what you are doing, then that is the way you should do it.

 

BTW, that is one of my pet peeves - people that have to be "correct"

[JanM]

The Bridgemates actually have three options - -x/=/+x, number of tricks taken or what they call "American" where if the contract is set, you do -x, if it is made exactly, = and if there are overtricks, the number made, so if declarer takes 11 tricks in 4♠ the score is entered as "5." I discovered this at the Cavendish, when one of the players at the table where I was the Vugraph operator said that the Bridgemate "wouldn't accept" the score when they had made an overtrick - he had entered +1 and the Bridgemate wouldn't accept it. I did the same and it worked no better for me. We called the director who explained that they were using "American" scoring and he had to enter a 5 in as the score.

 

Afterwards, I asked some of the players what they thought of it and several said they liked it - it is consistent with what you say if you're talking about the result on a board - "I was in 4 spades making 5" is the way most of us describe it verbally.

[JoAnneM]

Maybe there should be a separate thread for Bridgemate. I brought the subject up at our last District Board Meeting and the consensus was that it is too early - that they are still too "buggy". But they were at the Reno Sectional and they worked perfectly. Of course the director there was Dianne Barton-Payne and she has had special training with them.

 

I wonder what other experiences people here have had with them. I am looking at bottom line savings for Regionals. I figure the savings in caddies would pay for the machines in about four years - at their current cost.

[Mbodell]

Maybe there should be a separate thread for Bridgemate. I brought the subject up at our last District Board Meeting and the consensus was that it is too early - that they are still too "buggy". But they were at the Reno Sectional and they worked perfectly. Of course the director there was Dianne Barton-Payne and she has had special training with them.

 

I wonder what other experiences people here have had with them. I am looking at bottom line savings for Regionals. I figure the savings in caddies would pay for the machines in about four years - at their current cost.

I like them. I think most of the issues people might have will go away with use. I.e., how to handle skipped boards/late plays/etc.

[skjaeran]

Maybe there should be a separate thread for Bridgemate. I brought the subject up at our last District Board Meeting and the consensus was that it is too early - that they are still too "buggy". But they were at the Reno Sectional and they worked perfectly. Of course the director there was Dianne Barton-Payne and she has had special training with them.

 

I wonder what other experiences people here have had with them. I am looking at bottom line savings for Regionals. I figure the savings in caddies would pay for the machines in about four years - at their current cost.

The bridgemates aren't buggy at all. If they're working they're working perfectly. (A single bridgemate unit might be defect, of course. Then you just excange it with a working unit.)

 

If there's problems, it's with the scoring program and it's interface with the Bridgemate Pro Control Software.

 

We've used the bridgemates at our annual bridge festival for two years now, in our Premier League (and lots of heats of the lower leagues) in the same period. Lots of clubs use them too. I don't think I've ever heard of a problem arising from the bridgemates or the Pro Control Software. They're very easy to use - both as a player and as a TD/scorer.

[JanM]

The Bridgemates worked very well at the Cavendish. They were used only for the Pairs, because the programming to interface with ACBLScore has been done. For teams, you need different programming. We're (or rather Kitty Cooper, our wonderful website programmer is) working on that for the USBF Championships this year right now. I'm hoping that everything will go smoothly at all 3 events and that the results from the Round Robins will be posted more promptly than they have been in the past. We already post the KO results as soon as they're confirmed, and show most of the tables on BBO, so bridgemates won't change that.

[Walddk]

I am sure Kitty does a fine job with Bridgemate, but it is hardly a triumph that the USBF uses the device three years after it was first introduced at the 1st European Open Bridge Championships in Tenerife, Spain, in June 2005.

 

It was a success from the word go, so why it has taken this long is difficult to understand.

 

And as Richard (hrothgar) points out, we haven't seen anything of the kind in ACBL events yet. Whether it will take 20 years (as he predicts) or not remains to be seen.

 

Roland

[JanM]

I am sorry if you thought I was claiming "a triumph." Certainly had we known 3 years ago that ACBL wouldn't be buying Bridgemates, USBF would have made arrangements to have them sooner.

ACBL has been looking at them, and I know that some clubs have purchased them already. Hopefully, they'll be used in major tournaments here soon.

[matmat]

And as Richard (hrothgar) points out, we haven't seen anything of the kind in ACBL events yet. Whether it will take 20 years (as he predicts) or not remains to be seen.

 

Roland

quit simple really. directors would rather appear busy entering scores at some 20 year old PC than doing other, more useful things like actually ruling the game correctly or making sure people aren't cheating.

[JoAnneM]

Wow, where is all this coming from? So what if you had them three years ago. We are looking at them now. Didn't know it was a contest. I have found this in other conversations too - the rest of the world and then ACBL - it is so fourth grade.

 

The machines are being used in ACBL tournaments, Regionals and Sectionals, and their popularity is growing. I am very happy to hear about the Cavendish. Every success I can present to my BOD brings us that much closer to buying them for our District.

[JoAnneM]

Oh, one more thing. Our club is non-profit, we charge $3 per game. We just replaced our bidding boxes at a huge expense which included personal donations from members (I purchased 3 tables worth). So buy scoring machines is far beyond our financial hopes.

 

I just looked at a traveler. The columns say "made" and "down" so "made" 5 and "down" 1 seem quite reasonable. If the columns were headed "+" and "-" the way other would make sense.

[ArtK78]

Oh, one more thing.  Our club is non-profit, we charge $3 per game.  We just replaced our bidding boxes at a huge expense which included personal donations from members (I purchased 3 tables worth).  So buy scoring machines is far beyond our financial hopes.

 

I just looked at a traveler.  The columns say "made" and "down" so "made" 5 and "down" 1 seem quite reasonable.  If the columns were headed  "+" and "-" the way other would make sense.

$3 per session? Wow. I don't go to club games that often anymore, but when I go, they are $6, $7, $8 per session.

 

I haven't paid $3 for a club game session in many years.

 

That is one of the many advantages of the ACBL games on BBO - $1 per session, the speedball games last only 60 minutes, no driving to and from the game....

[matmat]

Wow, where is all this coming from?  So what if you had them three years ago.  We are looking at them now.  Didn't know it was a contest.  I have found this in other conversations too - the rest of the world and then ACBL - it is so fourth grade.

It's not a contest, really. it's just more that the acbl appears to be shuffling its feet when it comes to a lot of improvements and implementing orthogonal policies with little or negative impact on the enjoyment or integrity of the game.

[ArtK78]

Wow, where is all this coming from?  So what if you had them three years ago.  We are looking at them now.  Didn't know it was a contest.  I have found this in other conversations too - the rest of the world and then ACBL - it is so fourth grade.

It's not a contest, really. it's just more that the acbl appears to be shuffling its feet when it comes to a lot of improvements and implementing orthogonal policies with little impact on the enjoyment or integrity of the game.

Main Entry: or·thog·o·nal

Pronunciation: \ȯr-ˈthä-gə-nəl\

Function: adjective

Etymology: Middle French, from Latin orthogonius, from Greek orthogōnios, from orth- + gōnia angle — more at -gon

Date: 1612

1 a: intersecting or lying at right angles b: having perpendicular slopes or tangents at the point of intersection <orthogonal curves>

2: having a sum of products or an integral that is zero or sometimes one under specified conditions: as aof real-valued functions : having the integral of the product of each pair of functions over a specific interval equal to zero bof vectors : having the scalar product equal to zero cof a square matrix : having the sum of products of corresponding elements in any two rows or any two columns equal to one if the rows or columns are the same and equal to zero otherwise : having a transpose with which the product equals the identity matrix

3of a linear transformation : having a matrix that is orthogonal : preserving length and distance

4: composed of mutually orthogonal elements <an orthogonal basis of a vector space>

5: statistically independent

— or·thog·o·nal·i·ty \-ˌthä-gə-ˈna-lə-tē\ noun

— or·thog·o·nal·ly \-ˈthä-gə-nəl-ē\ adverb

 

Learn something new every day!

 

(I wonder if the Board of Directors sits around and someone says "Let's implement some new orthogonal policies!)

 

Sorry, Matmat. For some reason, your use of the term "orthogonal" struck me as hilarious. I am a tax attorney, and it would never occur to me to use that term.

[matmat]

(I wonder if the Board of Directors sits around and someone says "Let's implement some new orthogonal policies!)

dunno. but you obviously slept through all of your math classes

[ArtK78]

(I wonder if the Board of Directors sits around and someone says "Let's implement some new orthogonal policies!)

dunno. but you obviously slept through all of your math classes

My last math class was at Princeton in 1977. I can honestly say that I have never heard the term "orthogonal," and I did take math up through differential equations (a graduate level course).

 

Perhaps the term is limited to geometry, which I had in 10th grade. Although, reading the definition, it seems to have calculus in there as well.

[Echognome]

Oh, one more thing. Our club is non-profit, we charge $3 per game. We just replaced our bidding boxes at a huge expense which included personal donations from members (I purchased 3 tables worth). So buy scoring machines is far beyond our financial hopes.

 

I just looked at a traveler. The columns say "made" and "down" so "made" 5 and "down" 1 seem quite reasonable. If the columns were headed "+" and "-" the way other would make sense.

If it's between bridgemates and a duplimate, it's pretty clear that I'd rather a club have the latter. Of course, if you can afford neither, then it's a non issue.

 

20 bridgemates @ $154 = $3080

 

http://www.bridgemate.us/product.php?subpage=Pricing

 

1 duplimate new is around 3000 euros or approximately $4250. (the $ sucks right now though)

 

1 duplimate refurbished is around 1000 euros or $1550.

 

http://www.jannersten.se/pdf/DUPPRICE.pdf

[matmat]

My last math class was at Princeton in 1977. I can honestly say that I have never heard the term "orthogonal," and I did take math up through differential equations (a graduate level course).

 

Perhaps the term is limited to geometry, which I had in 10th grade. Although, reading the definition, it seems to have calculus in there as well.

oh wow. i'm so impressed.

[TimG]

That is one of the many advantages of the ACBL games on BBO - $1 per session, the speedball games last only 60 minutes, no driving to and from the game....

I think 60 minutes, and the resulting 12 boards, is a disadvantage of ACBL games on BBO. I'd much rather play 24 or 27. Yes, I could play back-to-back speedballs, but I think the results over a single longer session are more meaningful.

[ArtK78]

My last math class was at Princeton in 1977.  I can honestly say that I have never heard the term "orthogonal," and I did take math up through differential equations (a graduate level course).

 

Perhaps the term is limited to geometry, which I had in 10th grade.  Although, reading the definition, it seems to have calculus in there as well.

oh wow. i'm so impressed.

I wasn't trying to impress you.

 

I was just pointing out that I did not sleep through math.

[Guest Jlall]

Wow, where is all this coming from? So what if you had them three years ago. We are looking at them now. Didn't know it was a contest. I have found this in other conversations too - the rest of the world and then ACBL - it is so fourth grade.

 

The machines are being used in ACBL tournaments, Regionals and Sectionals, and their popularity is growing. I am very happy to hear about the Cavendish. Every success I can present to my BOD brings us that much closer to buying them for our District.

This happens a lot, especially with a lot of posters on the forums but also if you go to international tournaments you will see how bitter a lot of people are towards the USA. This is not restricted to bridge either of course, but I agree 100 % with you about it being like 4th grade. Oh well, maybe in 20 years...

[ArtK78]

That is one of the many advantages of the ACBL games on BBO - $1 per session, the speedball games last only 60 minutes, no driving to and from the game....

I think 60 minutes, and the resulting 12 boards, is a disadvantage of ACBL games on BBO. I'd much rather play 24 or 27. Yes, I could play back-to-back speedballs, but I think the results over a single longer session are more meaningful.

Who has the time? I will play full sessions at tournaments.

 

12 boards at a club game on BBO is fine.

[han]

(I wonder if the Board of Directors sits around and someone says "Let's implement some new orthogonal policies!)

dunno. but you obviously slept through all of your math classes

My last math class was at Princeton in 1977. I can honestly say that I have never heard the term "orthogonal," and I did take math up through differential equations (a graduate level course).

 

Perhaps the term is limited to geometry, which I had in 10th grade. Although, reading the definition, it seems to have calculus in there as well.

I taught a differential equation course this term and orthogonal came up, though admittedly it was not at princeton.

[barmar]

(I wonder if the Board of Directors sits around and someone says "Let's implement some new orthogonal policies!)

dunno. but you obviously slept through all of your math classes

My last math class was at Princeton in 1977. I can honestly say that I have never heard the term "orthogonal," and I did take math up through differential equations (a graduate level course).

 

Perhaps the term is limited to geometry, which I had in 10th grade. Although, reading the definition, it seems to have calculus in there as well.

I taught a differential equation course this term and orthogonal came up, though admittedly it was not at princeton.

I remember learning it in plane geometry. Two lines are orthogonal if they meet at a right angle, parallel if they never meet, and oblique if they meet at some other angle.