awm Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 [hv=d=w&v=e&n=sah9764dj87cj9874&s=s8764hkq83dakq92c]133|200|Scoring: MP[/hv] The auction is: PA-PA-1♠-2♦2♠-3♦-3♥-5♦X-All Pass The 3♥ bid is not alerted or anything. Perhaps 4♥ is a better contract, but there was a lot of potential for a misunderstanding if south tried to bid 4♥ over 3♥. Anyways, west leads the ♠2. What is your plan to make 5♦? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 I would lead a heart to the king. I hope to take some hearts and ruff some spades. 3H was the guys only game try and LHO didn't lead a stiff heart so RHO is likely to have <4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 I would doubled 3♥. Could that have been misunderstood? I can crossruff this hand from the get-go and I will be -2, so thats out. A dummy reversal is just too awkward. I can ruff clubs high in my hand and finesse the beer, but I'll lose control of the hand. I need an entry to the closed hand pronto, so a heart looks right now. Does RHO have ♥JTx (HSGT), ♥A??, A??? or even ♥AJTxx? The 9 looks like a no-cost play and may get RHO to split - if its average competition, he doesn't know that I don't know what 3♥ is, and certainly doesn't know the different possible meanings. I think with most trump holdings, LHO is tabling a stiff heart if he has one. Only if LHO is decent would I expect a stiff heart with 4 diamonds. If the opponents can enable a heart ruff, I'm down as they will no doubt return a trump after they ruff a heart. I really think I need hearts 3-2 and diamonds 3-2 to have a chance at this. I also need to RHO to pop ♥A as well, or I need to figure out the double hook right away. You simply need to be at the table for this. The play will (hopefully) go - ♠A, ♥lost, ♣ - tried to cash and ruffed (or a trump - one is OK), ♠ruffed, ♥to hand, ♠ruffed, trumps (or club ruff depending on T3) and hearts losing a spade at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 Heart up definitely looks right. Agree with Phil's double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted May 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 Double would probably have just been cards (i.e. set up a forcing auction, penalize if you can). Then 4♥ over 3♠ might show this, but it also has a bit of a 5-6 sound to it. We really hadn't discussed this particular sequence (where we have agreed a suit, opponents bid a suit naturally, and our best contract is in the suit they bid). Anyway, the interesting problem is one that Phil alluded to in his post. Say hearts are ♥Axx on declarer's right. You still need RHO to take the heart ace on the first round of the suit. Otherwise the play goes something like what happened to me at the table: Spade ace. Heart to king, winning. Spade ruff. But at this point, if I play a heart RHO hops ace and gives partner a ruff, then a diamond return sees me losing a heart, a heart ruff, and a spade in the end position. I think a slightly better line might be to win the spade ace and ruff a club, then ruff a spade and play a heart up. This is not really any different from the original line everyone has suggested on a double-dummy basis, but seeing that there are no club tricks and that I can crossruff the hand may cause RHO to panic, hop ace, and push a trump through (afraid my hand is something like xxxx Kxx AKQxxx - and the heart king is trick eleven if I'm allowed to take it now and continue the cross ruff; admittedly I might try to ruff all the spades in this case before playing a heart up, but this also is not without risk of a trump promotion and RHO also may not think it through). I suspect that psychologically, this may be a better line than the one proposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 Hmm - interesting approach, except with solid diamonds, wouldn't declarer just keep a crossruff going? A♠, ♣ruff, ♠ruff, ♣ruff, ♠ruff, ♣ruff, last ♠ruffed (We are down to ♦AKQ), ♥ up. ♠A, 3 ruffs in dummy, 1♥ and 6 trump in hand = 11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted May 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 The problem is that the fourth spade gives LHO an easy discard. If he started with two hearts then he can pitch one and they can score three heart tricks against us. If he started with four clubs he can pitch the fourth and get a trump promotion any time diamonds are 3-1. So while it might be the best line to just keep cross-ruffing, I don't know if it's totally clear. And again, RHO might not always think things through -- it seems natural to try to pull trumps when we are ruffing after all. The heart play is also one that people sometimes rush (they don't want to give away the ace position by thinking and then ducking). Again, this certainly makes no difference against opponents who can see through the backs of the cards. And maybe a good player will work out the right play on the heart. But it seems like the chance of getting ace to hop from ♥Axx by playing a heart at trick two are basically nil, even against fairly weak opposition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 Maybe so. This is a moderately complicated hand to start with. It's exponentially tougher to look at it though the lens of RHO and his problem. Great stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 But it seems like the chance of getting ace to hop from ♥Axx by playing a heart at trick two are basically nil, even against fairly weak opposition? By this logic you would always play a heart at trick 2 with the xxxx Kxx AKQxxx ---example right? :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 But it seems like the chance of getting ace to hop from ♥Axx by playing a heart at trick two are basically nil, even against fairly weak opposition? By this logic you would always play a heart at trick 2 with the xxxx Kxx AKQxxx ---example right? :P I think he is suggesting his opponents may not use logic. Which is often true against many opponents! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted May 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 But it seems like the chance of getting ace to hop from ♥Axx by playing a heart at trick two are basically nil, even against fairly weak opposition? By this logic you would always play a heart at trick 2 with the xxxx Kxx AKQxxx ---example right? :P Certainly it's worth a try! I think your chances of getting a duck here are extremely high -- how does RHO know you don't have a hand where the play revolves around guessing the heart suit, where taking the ace or even hesitating gives away the hand? And even if the duck gives you an entry to ruff a spade, you still have to get back to hand to ruff spade three, and RHO is sitting there with (quite possibly) both rounded aces to prevent this. The only real negative is that if the ♥A is offside, this line would lead to down two instead of down one via a straight crossruff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 I'm afraid I won't get RHO to hop no matter what, but it is an interesting thought. Maybe if we show heart length by ruffing a club then it will actually be easier for them to duck. Maybe not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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