Finch Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 love allLHO opens 4H, passed round to you ♠AKJ86542♥-♦A♣Q1064 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 I will just bid 6. Five will just get a puzzling look from partner, the hand is too good for 4. Let me guess, this was from the Spring 4s, and bidding 6 knocked us out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 I think I'd double ! (not especially recommended with the void but maybe we belong to clubs !) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 4♠, but not really happy about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 Preempts can be such as pain The bidding is already at the 4 level. However are we possibility going to let partner know that club controls are so crucial and that the KQ of Diamonds might not matter at all? If the missing high card are split evening bettwen RHO and partner slam could be quite reasonable. However, even with LHO's Heart length, there are still two opponents and one partner who can hold missing card which doesn't encourage me. Mark me down for 4NT (suggesting two places to play). If partner bids 5♣, I'm going to bid 6♠. If partner bids 5♦, I'll bid 5♠. I hope that this will work better than 5♠, 6♠, or even pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted May 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 Let me guess, this was from the Spring 4s, and bidding 6 knocked us out. This is from a match we won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 I'm happy with a plain 4♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 5♠ sounds just right. We will make this opposite almost anything, and the danger of partner raising and slam being off is zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 While 5S feels right I'm just worried because there is no way for partner to evaluate his hand. So it feels like we may be getting the worst of both worlds; he will pass with hands that make slam cold and we may have gone past our last making spot (4S). For 5S to be better than 4S it has to get us to more slams than 5S-1 contracts. For 5S to be better than 6S it has to allow us to avoid enough bad slams (that make exactly 11 tricks) to compensate for the slams we will miss. It just seems like given that partner cannot evaluate we should guess something. On the other hand I have no idea if 6S or 4S is a better guess, so 5S feels right! Ok, confused yet? Anyways, I think I would go with 4S. If my spades were AKQ I would try 6 but there are just too many holes in this hand. Also, if they choose to compete to 5H and then I bid 5S maybe they will X me (wishful thinking). TBH I think no one has enough experience with this type of hand to have any idea what is right from experience, and no one is capable of reasoning out the best bid either. I mean how do you reason out how frequently partner has good clubs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 4♠ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 4♠. Did I miss a slam? Too bad. He wouldn't know what to do over 5♠ anyway, and 4NT (two places to play) is not attractive. Even if he bids clubs, it's not at all certain we belong there. He could be 2-3 in the blacks. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 4♠, and hope we don't miss a slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 I don't think either 4 or 6 can be criticized too much here, but I really don't like 5. I know that if a small club were the ♣J instead I would bid 6♠ for sure. I think this is a much more important change than ♠J to ♠Q. If this is early in a long match then I would try 6♠. Otherwise I'd just bid 4 and take the plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 4♠. Did I miss a slam? Too bad. He wouldn't know what to do over 5♠ anyway, and 4NT (two places to play) is not attractive. Even if he bids clubs, it's not at all certain we belong there. He could be 2-3 in the blacks. Roland I seem to be the only person suggesting that yiu bidding 4NT (two places to play).Please note, I have no intention of ever declaring a club contract. Rather, I think that information about partner's Club length will provide useful information about where he is likely to hold randomly placed honors. In turn, this information might allow me to make an more accurate decision about level for a Spade contract. For what its worth, I agree with Justin's basic comment that no one (or very few) players will have sufficient exerience with this type of hand to make an accurate decision at the table. Offline, we can do a monte carlo simulation or some such, but I think that the EBU would frown if I pulled out a laptop during a real event. I really have no idea whether we want to be in 4♠ or 6♠. I'm hoping that the 4NT might provide some useful information. Unfortunately, I'm not sure whether this will justify bypassing 4♠ on the wrong hands... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 TBH I think no one has enough experience with this type of hand to have any idea what is right from experience, and no one is capable of reasoning out the best bid either. I mean how do you reason out how frequently partner has good clubs? How about this reasoning:If partner has a hand where 6♠ is good, and you give that hand to LHO, then 6♠ is probably down. Since RHO might also hold a club honor some day, this suggests 4♠ is better than 6♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 4♠ with clenched teeth. Making 6 or 7 I'll bet. Hopefully are opponents look at the hand the same way and out teammates made the same pressure bid. Put it this way - on a really, really, REALLY bad day you are going bait in 4. The clubs are moth-eaten and there might be a spade loser (or two). Give me solid spades and its a 5♠ call. Upgrade to solid spades along with KJ9x of clubs and I'll gamble 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 4♠ based on my general principles. Extremely close to 5 but the argument by others that partner can't evaluate accurately is compelling. I don't despise Richard's plan for 4NT but I don't think it's likely to help. The correlation between partner's club length and club honors seems relatively slight to me, and it would do nothing toward slams that make based on a hand with partner like Qxx xxxx KQxxx x. But maybe it should at least rank higher than blasting 6♠? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 Richard's plan is ok, but I hope pard can understand the spade pull mastermind, otherwise you'll endup in an hopeless 7♣ or 7♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 4♠ based on my general principles. What are those principles, that partner should pass with strong hands expecting you to have a poor hand? You're such a coward Josh. I also bid 4S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 4♠ based on my general principles. What are those principles Eat right, exercise, get plenty of sleep unless playing BBO till 2 in the morning, and waste 3 hours a day at work on the forums. It's gotten me where I am today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted May 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 I have no idea what the _right_ action is, but4S = +450/4805S = +980/-50(6S also = +980 but personally I think that's an overbid) partner has Axxxx clubs, some wasted high honours in the red suits and a singleton spade, you have to decide what to do in trumps in 6.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 4♠ based on my general principles. Extremely close to 5 but the argument by others that partner can't evaluate accurately is compelling. I don't despise Richard's plan for 4NT but I don't think it's likely to help. The correlation between partner's club length and club honors seems relatively slight to me, and it would do nothing toward slams that make based on a hand with partner like Qxx xxxx KQxxx x. But maybe it should at least rank higher than blasting 6♠? In this case, partner's club preference did align with a missing club honor. The 4NT bid that I suggested would have led to a 6♠ contract, however, its far from clear if you want to be there. I am trying to make up my mind about the merits of this approach. You no longer get to use 5♠ as cue bid in support of clubs in sequences like: (4♥) - 4N - (P) - 5♣ (P) - 5♠ Grands are going to be much more difficult to bid. On the other hand, it might improve your ability to bid slams on hands like the one in question... We often talk about game before slam as a principle for prioritizing bidding space. I wonder if small before grands should be every bit as important a consideration. One of the benefits of the method in question is auctions like the following (4♥) - 4N - (P) - 5♣ (P) - 5♠ If we define this as a single suited hand with spades that is worried about Diamond controls partner can bid on with suitable hand. Obviously, the main risk is auctions like (4♥) - 4N - (P) - 5♣ (P) - 6♠ As Josh notes, its unclear how strong the correlation is between partner's club preference and club honors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Richard's idea is creative, playing with a partner that would accept my apology after he corrected my 6♠ to 7♦ I could easily be convinced that it is right. Surprised by the number of experts who would bid 4. I was torn between 5 and 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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