jillybean Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: IMP ♠ KQT95 ♥ QJ74 ♦ A5 ♣ AQ West North East South - - - 1♠ Pass 2♣ Pass 2♥ Pass 4♠ Pass 5♦ Dbl RDbl* Pass *2nd control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotShot Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 5♠, I don't have the ♥ control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodwintr Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 Re-redouble, 1st-round control. Seriously, partner probably would (should?) have bid 5H (instead of redouble) if he had a heart control. If that is right, 5S now. And if it isn't right, still 5S now. I am having trouble visualizing partner's hand, though: isn't he supposed to have good clubs and good spades to bid 2C, then 4S? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 6♠, what in the world can partner have without two of AK of hearts A of spades? I would have bid keycard last round even without hearts controlled. Partner almost surely has them controlled, and even if he doesn't and we get to slam they are unlikely to lead a heart (never from just the K for example) and we would surely make based on club tricks. I'd rather not help them lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 How about AJx xx Kx KJTxxx? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted May 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 Redouble should be first round control, pass 2nd round control? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 Redouble should be first round control, pass 2nd round control? Redouble should be first round control, or pass and allow the cuebidder to clarify his bid as first or second round control (by either redouble or bidding). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 How about AJx xx Kx KJTxxx? I don't know about you, but if he has that hand I want to be in slam after the auction I would have, I expect it to make the vast majority of the time opening leader doesn't have AK of hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 How about AJx xx Kx KJTxxx? I don't know about you, but if he has that hand I want to be in slam after the auction I would have, I expect it to make the vast majority of the time opening leader doesn't have AK of hearts. I don't know, if you're on lead against your auction (expecting that the opponents are off one keycard) with xx Kxx xxxxx xxx, what do you lead? It seems to me that if we don't take the first two tricks, they likely have 12 tricks. 11 black suit tricks plus a red suit ace wouldn't be a surprise. 10 black suit tricks plus the AK of diamonds, or 10 black suit tricks plus ♥A plus a forced trick from ♦KQ, wouldn't be a surprise, either. I think I'd lead a heart. I'd be less likely to get it right holding xx Axx Qxxxx xxx, but even then, not taking the first two tricks is probably a disaster, so I might get it right and lead a heart. Perhaps I am giving too much credit to the opponents' auction and am wrong to assume their suits are running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 I agree with TimG, and missing AK hearts makes 6S look too risky. I would lead a heart regardless. On this bidding sequence I think it depends on the meaning of your cue bids - does the redouble deny a heart control? If it denies an Ace but may have the King then I bid ace asking, as Jxx Kx KQ KJxxxx is a possibility - missing 2 aces. That 4♠ bid says "minimum" in my book. I don't think the bid shows good spades. If it denies both, I bid 5♠. If it says nothing about hearts, I ace ask. In response to the ace ask, if he has 2 then I bid 6♠ but on 0 or 1 I sign off in 5♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 How about AJx xx Kx KJTxxx? I don't know about you, but if he has that hand I want to be in slam after the auction I would have, I expect it to make the vast majority of the time opening leader doesn't have AK of hearts. I don't know, if you're on lead against your auction (expecting that the opponents are off one keycard) with xx Kxx xxxxx xxx, what do you lead? It seems to me that if we don't take the first two tricks, they likely have 12 tricks. 11 black suit tricks plus a red suit ace wouldn't be a surprise. 10 black suit tricks plus the AK of diamonds, or 10 black suit tricks plus ♥A plus a forced trick from ♦KQ, wouldn't be a surprise, either. I think I'd lead a heart. I'd be less likely to get it right holding xx Axx Qxxxx xxx, but even then, not taking the first two tricks is probably a disaster, so I might get it right and lead a heart. Perhaps I am giving too much credit to the opponents' auction and am wrong to assume their suits are running. That is quite a double of 5♦. Was it suggesting a sacrifice by the hand on lead against spades? Perhaps you mean to provide West with a hand like xx Kxx KQJT9 xxx. In which case the double of 5♦ is sort of a knee-jerk reaction to the cue bid. In that case, it is certainly not clear to lead a heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 I would definitely bid 6S for the reason jdonn said: What do you think partner has? He must have hearts controlled, and even if he has the rare hand where he doesnt it's still a pretty good slam. FWIW I would have just bid keycard over the 4S bid (cue mikeh, no pun intended!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 That is quite a double of 5♦. Was it suggesting a sacrifice by the hand on lead against spades? I was talking about, and giving examples for, the auction suggested by jdonn which did not involve any cue-bidding or doubles of cue-bids. I even quoted jdonn's "I want to be in slam after the auction I would have" so it would be clear which auction was under discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babalu1997 Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 West North East South - - - 1♠ Pass 2♣ Pass 2♥ Pass 4♠ Pass 5♦ Dbl RDbl* Pass *2nd control [/font] the problem i see with this is really the 4S bid That seems to be telling me, yeahyeah we have game, but me gots nothing to cuebid. Now if i bid 3S i am begging the guy to cue his ace of clubs and then i have cheap chance at 4h. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted May 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 [hv=d=s&v=n&n=sa32h862dkq4ckt63&s=skqt95hqj74da5caq]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - - 1♠ Pass 2♣ Pass 2♥ Pass 4♠ Pass 5♦ Dbl RDbl Pass 5♠ Pass Pass Pass Here's the full hand. For a moment I did consider passing XX ;) :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 Ok I really dislike the 4S bid. For me 4S shows a picture jump - good Cs, very likely 4S or 3 really good ones, and no control in the red suits - typically a 4225 or perhaps a 3226 shape. In your sequence 5D is fine, but I really dislike the xx, which should show 1st round control, (if you are bidding 1st and 2nd round cues). You landed in an ok spot, with some danger of a H ruff, but I suspect this was more luck than good management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 [hv=d=s&v=n&n=sa32h862dkq4ckt63&s=skqt95hqj74da5caq]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - - 1♠ Pass 2♣ Pass 2♥ Pass 4♠ Pass 5♦ Dbl RDbl Pass 5♠ Pass Pass Pass Here's the full hand. For a moment I did consider passing XX ;) :) If partner had the CJ I think this would be a perfect example of a hand that you want to be in 6S rather than 5S in. If they lead hearts they will often get a ruff, if they don't you will usually make 6. Playing in 5 is only right if they're leading hearts and they're 3-3 or AK tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 As an aside here. Doesn't anyone play picture bids any more? There have been very few comment made on the (imo poor) 4S bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 As an aside here. Doesn't anyone play picture bids any more? There have been very few comment made on the (imo poor) 4S bid. Assuming you're not playing 2/1, and you're not playing with any agreements I would not assume partner would take either 2S or 3S as forcing over 2H, so I would bid 4S if I had a hand that I wanted to force to game. Yes I agree that bidding this way is almost unplayable, but I suspect it's how a majority of pickup partnerships play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 As an aside here. Doesn't anyone play picture bids any more? I do. All the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 I worry that by bidding 5♦ partner is going to assume that I don't have the ♣Ace. If despite that missing card partner is co-operating with a ♦ cue then I will assume he has a ♥ control - King at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: IMP ♠ A32 ♥ 862 ♦ KQ4 ♣ KT63 ♠ KQT95 ♥ QJ74 ♦ A5 ♣ AQ West North East South - - - 1♠ Pass 2♣ Pass 2♥ Pass 4♠ Pass 5♦ Dbl RDbl Pass 5♠ Pass Pass Pass Here's the full hand. <snip> The North hand is only worth a limit raise, i.e. North did overbid by a fair degree.South never showed add. strength.Just ask yourself, how does your min.opening bids look like, remember the hand,you said, which was a clear opener?=> After the 4S bid by North I would ask forKC and would have bid the slam.If North had voiced a complain, I would have looked for a beginner class and bought him the lesson. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 A hand with a minimum balanced GF responds 2♣ and gets into trouble later on. Haven't we already had this discussion? (Add some jacks to North if you think it's not a minimum balanced GF). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 To Ron and JT, as far as I know Jillybean does not play 2/1 GF nor 1NT forcing so that's all moot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 A hand with a minimum balanced GF responds 2♣ and gets into trouble later on. Seems to me the trouble is caused by having no agreements, including about style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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