how now?

[han]

Teams, vulnerable.

 

Q

Kxxx

AJ9xx

K10x

 

North dealer, opposition is silent.

 

1C - 1D

1NT - 2H

3D - ??

[the hog]

Pass. Not worth a gf opposite the crap I usually open. Pd made the weakest possible bid - assuming 2NT is not some artificial puppet.

[655321]

In the style I usually play, this hand would normally go through checkback. A 2♥ rebid shows more of an interest in playing in diamonds (4-6), hence opener's 3♦ shows a fit but does not say anything about spade stoppers. Playing that style, I might try 3NT now.

 

However, the fact that we did, actually, rebid 2♥ suggests that we are not playing this style. :D

 

On the assumption that partner might have rebid 2NT with spade stoppers, I will make the subtle bid of 5♦.

[gnasher]

3NT. 13 HCP is 13 HCP, and partner's 3♦ doesn't make my hand any worse. It might be right to play in diamonds, but there's no room to explore.

 

I'm curious. That you had this auction suggests that you don't play any kind of Checkback after 1♣-1♦-1NT. Is that correct, and if so is it normal?

Edited May 2, 2008 by gnasher

[P_Marlowe]

Pass.

 

Of course this assumes, that 3D can

be passed.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Guest Jlall]

Lacking any system I don't understand how 3D can be passed. What is partner supposed to do with a random good hand with diamonds? Are we assuming he'd bid 2S with that? What if we had bid 2S, then could 3D be passed?

 

Without agreements I would just assume partner is always bidding 3D with a hand that looks like diamonds regardless of minimum or maximum.

[inquiry]

Pass is difficule to understand. I play a raise to 4♦ here as essentially forcing. But I am not good enough for 4♦, I am not going to bid 3NT if partner could only raise ♦, either hearts are singled stopped or more likley, spades are a problem.

 

So, I am simply going to bid 5♦. At MPs I might try for 3NT,

[gnasher]

It's possible to hold a hand that is interested in game if opener has four hearts, but not otherwise. I don't think this hand falls into that category, but if it did I'd like to be able to bid 2♥ and then pass 3♦.

 

In fact, that sounds quite a good use for 2♥. Playing two-way checkback (or whatever you choose to call it), 2♥ isn't needed for real invitations or game-forces, so maybe it should show specifically a weaker hand with aspirations only opposite a heart fit.

[Finch]

In my two-way checkback partnership 2H specifically shows 4-6 and real interest in playing in diamonds. (In the other partnership 2H shows 4 spades.)

 

On this hand with an English partner I would bid 3S, fourth suit forcing, showing doubt about 3NT. I get the impression from these fora that many other people would think 3S is patterning out/length so I wouldn't do that with them. If partner thinks 3S is length I would bid 3NT, because partner can then infer that the suit I am unsure about is spades.

 

I would have thought partner was bound to bid 3D over 2H looking at any hand with a diamond fit whatever his spade holding e.g.

 

KJx

Ax

KQx

Jxxxx

 

or the boring

 

K10xx

Qxx

K10x

Axx

[kenrexford]

This may sound, or even be, stupid, but are we playing Walsh here?

 

If so, then I agree 100% with Justin (aka, jlall)(aka, "the Kid")(aka "Rexford 12B")(this new parenthetical idea is fun).

 

Opener likes diamonds for some reason. Diamonds is the focus. Now decide whether to sign off somewhere(3NT or 5♦), cue, or notrump probe.

[jtfanclub]

Lacking any system I don't understand how 3D can be passed. What is partner supposed to do with a random good hand with diamonds?

Um, not open 1 club and rebid 1NT?

 

What is the point of making 3♦ forcing here?

[mike777]

5D

 

I think partner is worried about spade stoppers.

 

 

btw many who play two way checkback will play in this exact auction:

1) 2h here as a game force.

2) 2c as game force checkback with no 4 card major

3) 2d as natural, weakish to play.

 

"1C 1D

1NT ??

 

THIS is what I play with ...........(we don't need 2 way in this situation)

 

2C....Game forcing Checkback...(used for forcing hand when responder has no 4 card major and isn't certain about 3NT)

Opener should rebid 3C with 5 clubs, and rebid 3D with 4 diamonds. With both majors well stopped, opener rebids NT,

When he can't make any of those bids, he should bid the major where he has the most strength....Remember, the 2C

bid is NOT looking for a 4-4 major fit.

 

2D.......to play

2H.......4 Hearts, game forcing.....

2S.......4 Spades, game forcing...

2NT.....invitational

3C......invitational

3D......invitational

 

You can't sign off in clubs....if you had 5 card club support, no 4 card major, and a weak hand, you should have bid 3C the first time..."

[gnasher]

I play 2C and 2D as the same as after any other 1x-1y-1NT sequence: 2C is a puppet to 2D, either a signoff or various invitations; 2D is any game force.

 

2H is either 5-6 or not discussed, depending on the partnership.

[dcvetkov]

Pass is difficule to understand. I play a raise to 4♦ here as essentially forcing. But I am not good enough for 4♦, I am not going to bid 3NT if partner could only raise ♦, either hearts are singled stopped or more likley, spades are a problem.

 

So, I am simply going to bid 5♦. At MPs I might try for 3NT,

I agree with this, pass in unphantomable. Just one note, that 4♦ would be interpreted as RKCB for diamonds in a lot of circles, so I would just bid 5D. It should have a play, unless there is too much spade wastage

[Apollo81]

Without necessarily agreeing with the bidding so far, I would bid 3♠, still hoping we can reach 3NT.

[jdonn]

I don't usually pass in game forcing auctions. So I'll try 3NT.

[helene_t]

3NT. Not sure why I bid 2♥. Are we playing Walsh? Otherwise I would have bid 3NT in previous round. So maybe I should bid 3♠ now to be consistent.

[mike777]

Whether we are playing Walsh or not opener has clearly denied 4 spades by bidding 3d. With 3 good spades and 3 lousy d I assume they would rebid 2nt not 3d.

[jdonn]

Whether we are playing Walsh or not opener has clearly denied 4 spades by bidding 3d. With 3 good spades and 3 lousy d I assume they would rebid 2nt not 3d.

Two questions. What would you expect partner to do with three good spades and three good diamonds? And is partner barred over 3NT?

 

I want to mention I think your posting style has greatly improved lately and become a lot more bearable. Keep it up soldier!

[ArtK78]

If I bid 3NT here, I would not be surprised to find that our spade suit consists of Q opposite xxx.

[Guest Jlall]

Lacking any system I don't understand how 3D can be passed. What is partner supposed to do with a random good hand with diamonds?

Um, not open 1 club and rebid 1NT?

 

What is the point of making 3♦ forcing here?

Because opener could still have a 14 count with 3 diamonds and responder showed...well we don't know but certainly at least inv values?

[Guest Jlall]

And is partner barred over 3NT?

Yep, almost. You and Frances seem to imply (or state) that the 2H then 3N sequence has shown doubt about NT, why can't that doubt just be whether or not you have a 4-4 fit in hearts? I guess this again comes down to system. If you can bypass majors to rebid 1N which seems the norm these days then you have to bid 2H to find out about whether you have a 4-4 fit or not in hearts (unless we play some kind of checkback, then what did 2H mean?).

 

So we really need better definitions for the 1N bid and the 2H bid otherwise we are just guessing. However in a random expert pickup partnership I would guess a Walsh style and I would not guess checkback on this auction.

[kenrexford]

OK. Seems that we are forced to make assumptions, and reasonable assumptions make sense.

 

I'll assume that this is a fairly natural Walsh approach.

I'll assume that Responder has shown 5+ diamonds, probably real hearts (could be manufactured), and GF.

I'll assume that Opener has shown a semi-balanced hand with no four-card major but with diamond support of some variety, although maybe Hx is possible (3325 with poor clubs and no spade stop?).

 

Opener also seems limited.

 

Are these assumptions fair?

[TimG]

OK. Seems that we are forced to make assumptions, and reasonable assumptions make sense.

 

I'll assume that this is a fairly natural Walsh approach.

I'll assume that Responder has shown 5+ diamonds, probably real hearts (could be manufactured), and GF.

I'll assume that Opener has shown a semi-balanced hand with no four-card major but with diamond support of some variety, although maybe Hx is possible (3325 with poor clubs and no spade stop?).

 

Opener also seems limited.

 

Are these assumptions fair?

Isn't it important to know whether opener denied a four-card major with his 1N rebid or with his 3♦ bid?

 

If opener denied a four-card major with his 1NT rebid, then responder's sequence (2♥ then 3NT over 3♦) would show some doubt about 3NT, wouldn't it?

 

If the 1NT rebid did not deny a major, then responder's sequence could just be checking on a 4-4 heart fit and it would be rare for opener to remove 3N even with something like xxx in spades.

[benlessard]

3S wtp for me. 3D doesnt denies a S stopper of half a stopper.