Best line in slam?

[Guest Jlall]

[hv=n=skj9hk32dkj2ca932&s=sa32hajt954da9ck4]133|200|[/hv]

 

You get to 6H after the auction

 

1H 2C

2H 3H

3S 3N

4C 4D

4N 5H

6H

 

You get a small diamond lead. How do you play? (assume whatever diamond you play at trick one gets covered by the cheapest honor).

[kenrexford]

IMP or MP or BAM?

 

God is this a mess. All kinds of options are rapidly firing in my brain. Compound nonsense, what happens next scenarios, and the like. Heck, even a trump reduction and never touching trumps until they have to break the suit is an option.

[Guest Jlall]

Sorry, imps. Good question and obviously relevant :P

[han]

Have only 1 minute but maybe ruff out diamonds, ruff 1 clubs, cash heart ace and finesse in hearts?

[655321]

This looks like one of those hands where you don't touch trumps, and force them to play trumps for you.

 

So start with 3 rounds of clubs, a diamond to the King and the 4th club. If RHO shows out you are almost home - ruff, cross to the spade, ruff the diamond, and get out with King and another spade.

 

If RHO has the 4th club, you need to decide how to play the spades and the trumps - ie pitch a spade on the 4th club, or ruff the club with the J, or ruff the club with the Ace.

[Guest Jlall]

What are people playing at trick 1. I didn't mean to ignore that (it wasn't actually QT on your right, I just said assume whichever one you played didnt work heh).

[kenrexford]

IMPs?

 

I like my trump reduction line more, partly because it is sexy. What the Heck. Never one to shy away...

 

Win he diamond. Diamond back to the King. Ruff a diamond.

 

Club King, Club Ace, ruff a club.

 

Spade Ace, Spade King, lead a club.

 

If RHO shows out on this club, I ruff cheap, exit a spade, and claim.

 

If RHO follows to this fourth club (and that club is high), I have a decision.

 

I could ruff with the 9 as a finesse; if it holds I exit my last spade and claim; if it fails I am down.

 

Alternatively, I could ditch my last spade. But that seems to delay the inevitable.

 

I especially like this line because it is a line that requires the question to be posed exactly as you posed it -- without clarifying anything except trick one. LOL

 

===========================

 

The obvious (and perhaps sane) alternative seems to be to cash the Ace-King of hearts (King first) to see what happens.

[gnasher]

What are people playing at trick 1.

It's tempting to play the jack, because that reduces the number of elimination lines I have to consider.

[kenrexford]

What the Heck is wrong with all of us? Everyone is headed trump reduction direction?!? roflol

 

On the lead? I'm still wondering whether the guy is thinking he is safe and underleading a 10 (bad move) or thinks he is aggressive and underleading the Queen. It probably depends on the auction to 6♠ and who LHO is.

[Guest Jlall]

This trump reduction line seems quite cavalier for starters you are risking anyone having a singleton in any suit.

 

More importantly you risk LHO having a doubleton club and overruffing you small. Now you go down if the spade hook is off, or if you manage to lose a trump trick still.

 

And if LHO has 3 clubs you still have to guess trumps.

 

All in all you're going to a fair bit, it seems like this is way inferior to other lines.

 

Do people really feel this is percentage over alternative lines, and if so why?

[kenrexford]

This trump reduction line seems quite cavalier for starters you are risking anyone having a singleton in any suit.

 

More importantly you risk LHO having a doubleton club and overruffing you small. Now you go down if the spade hook is off, or if you manage to lose a trump trick still.

 

And if LHO has 3 clubs you still have to guess trumps.

 

All in all you're going to a fair bit, it seems like this is way inferior to other lines.

 

Do people really feel this is percentage over alternative lines, and if so why?

We all like this line because then we get to brag over scotch about our brilliant trump reduction line to make 6♥.

[Winstonm]

I don't think LHO would lead from Qxx(x) against this slam, so 9 from dummy to the 10 and A. If I assume Q of diamonds with RHO, I think I am automatic now if I simply play A of hearts and finesse the Jack. If this loses, a club back is forced. I can then play 3 clubs, ruffing the third, to isolate the menace. If RHO has the club length, simple club/diamond squeeze; if LHO has the club length, club/diamond double squeeze with threats 2 of clubs, J of diamonds, and 2 of spades.

 

Note: May be right to run J of hearts without cashing the Ace to cater to a 4-0 break.

[jdonn]

Note: May be right to run J of hearts without cashing the Ace to cater to a 4-0 break.

Just as a minor contribution, singleton queen on your right is more likely than void on your right by about a 5 to 4 margin, so you should play the ace of hearts first in your line.

[655321]

I play a low diamond at trick 1, so as not to waste the power of the 9.

 

The trump reduction line - not sure about the percentages :)

 

We can get some protection against 2-5 clubs by ruffing the 3rd club with the 9 - then if LHO has 4 clubs after all, the line is back on track.

 

A simple line (2 rounds of trumps then a spade finesse) is 75%, and there have to be lines with endplay possibilites that are better than this, so I guess the trump reduction line has to be well over 75% to be plausible.

 

OK, if RHO has 2 or 3 clubs, we almost always make unless there is a singleton spade or diamond. I don't think RHO has a small singleton club (club lead), perhaps if RHO drops a big club on the first trick, we should change our minds...

If RHO has 4 or 5 clubs, we are back to guessing what to do - call this 50%.

 

Hmm. OK, perhaps this is not such a terrific line after all. :(

[cnszsun]

I don't know if this is a little improvement over the obvious simple line (2 rounds of trumps then a spade finesse).

Play small ♦ from dummy at 1st trick,

3 rounds of ♣s and ruff with 9,

♥A, ♥K,

If rho has ♥Qxx, i can ruff 4th♣ and endplay him with 3rd ♥.

[han]

I haven't thought much about it yet but in my line above it was useless to ruff out the diamond. Just win in hand, play two clubs and ruff a club, ace of hearts and the heart finesse. if it loses and RHO has 3 clubs he is endplayed. If RHO has 4 clubs you can still guess which pointed suit finesse you take.

[Apollo81]

insert jack at trick 1, the lead is much more likely to be from the queen

[gnasher]

So many choices. I don't think anyone has mentioned this line:

 

Three rounds of diamonds, ruffing low. Three rounds of clubs, ruffing with J. Heart to the king. Heart finesse. If West wins, maybe he'll be endplayed.

 

In fact, I like Han's line (low on diamond, ruff one club medium, ace of hearts, run jack of hearts) best. That also works when East has ♥Qxx - when West shows out, you can revert to cnzsun's plan of ruffing the fourth club and exiting with a trump.

[mikeh]

In a vacuum, I think the diamond J at trick one is the better play, given the auction (note who cue'd diamonds) and the tendency to make aggressive leads against small slams. But that 9 troubles me, and playing the J is pretty committal in the suit, while playing low is almost as good a play at trick one and reserves options for later... so I play low.

 

Next, I don't understand why anyone would not play on trump. I'm a simple player, and I don't see any reason not to start with low to the King and back.

 

What I do now depends on what happened... are trump 3-1 or 4-0? I assume not 2-2 and not stiff Queen, and not 0=4, since these all allow me to claim and I'm not sweating the overtrick in the forum, altho I would at the table.

 

If rho has Qxx, I play 3 rounds of clubs in an effort to do a partial elimination and then throw rho in.. if he is down to nothing but pointed cards, I can claim. If he has the last club (and assuming QJ10 have not appeared, I will cash the K then A of spades then my last trump. If LHO has both pointed queens, he is squeezed. If the spade Q was doubleton, it drops, and finally I take the diamond hook.

 

If lho has the 3 trump, the play is obviously different, but I am running late for court so will not post my line now... I will do so later if the thread is still active

[brianshark]

I haven't read the whole thread yet, so my line may be said already or may be refuted already:

 

I'm going to play the ♦9 and if it loses, win with the A. Then I'm going to cash the ♥A. Assuming both follow small, I'm going to cash the ♣king and ace and ruff a ♣ with the ♥J. Assuming it all works so far, I'm going to lead a ♥ towards dummy. If LHO shows out then I play the ♥K, ruff a ♣ and exit in ♥s. If not then I simply finesse.

 

I win most cases by picking up the ♥ suit or force an end-play except that I'm back to a 50% finesse guess any time that:

- Either opponent has 4 trumps (no end-play possible)

- Someone has a singleton club (but not RHO if he started with exactly 2) (they ruff my 2nd club... then I just draw trump and take a finesse)

- LHO over-ruffs the 3rd ♣.

- RHO has 4 clubs and ♥Qx (has a safe club exit after I finesse ♥)

[Guest Jlall]

Han and brianshark said the line I took at the table.

 

small from dummy (keeping the tenace in tact), win the ace, club club club ruff with the 9, ace of hearts jack of hearts finessing.

 

If LHO has 3+ clubs and if trumps are 3-1 with the queen on your home, or 2-2 with the queen on you're home, or 3-1 with the queen OFF you're home (when LHO shows out, you win the king, ruff the 4th club and exit a heart and claim). If trumps are 2-2 with the queen off and RHO has 3 or less clubs you're home.

 

If trumps are 2-2 with RHO having 4 and the queen you can test for Qx of spades then finesse diamonds.

 

If LHO has a doubleton club and no HQ you're home, if he has the HQ he will overruff you and return a diamond and you'll have to guess the position (but can be a little better than a finesse).

 

This line seems far stronger than anything else suggested.

[kenrexford]

Han and brianshark said the line I took at the table.

 

small from dummy (keeping the tenace in tact), win the ace, club club club ruff with the 9, ace of hearts jack of hearts finessing.

 

If LHO has 3+ clubs and if trumps are 3-1 with the queen on your home, or 2-2 with the queen on you're home, or 3-1 with the queen OFF you're home (when LHO shows out, you win the king, ruff the 4th club and exit a heart and claim). If trumps are 2-2 with the queen off and RHO has 3 or less clubs you're home.

 

If trumps are 2-2 with RHO having 4 and the queen you can test for Qx of spades then finesse diamonds.

 

If LHO has a doubleton club and no HQ you're home, if he has the HQ he will overruff you and return a diamond and you'll have to guess the position (but can be a little better than a finesse).

 

This line seems far stronger than anything else suggested.

WHat happened?

[Guest Jlall]

DQ on left, DT on right. I don't know where the SQ was. Hearts were 3-1 with Qxx on left. I don't know who had 4th club. Heh, when my heart jack won i just pulled trumps, crossed to spade ace, and hooked a diamond for 7. Didn't look at what the layout was sorry.