Raptor 1NT overcall

[Chamaco]

Hi all,

I have been proposed to start playing the "Raptor" 1NT overcall, showing one only 4 card major + a longer minor.

 

With std methods, when u are dealt such a hand, one is usually torn between an offshape takeout double (pard will certainly bid your singleton/doubleton major) double, a minor suit overcall (may lose a major 4-4 fit), a 4 card major overcall (only with a strong 4 bagger), or a reluctant pass (often your values will be hard to describe fully with a "pass-then-bid" sequence).

 

This sounds good.

Yet, I am a little suspicious about what you lose by giving up the natural 1NT overcall.

So below are a few questions to people that tried for real the Raptor 1NT, and liked it or rejected on the basis of real experience.

Thanks !

 

1) LOSING the natural 1NT

 

In the sources I found, it seems that the best policy is to pass a natural 1NT hand which does not hold 3 card support for the unbid suits.

Raptor 1NT fans suggest that a natural 1NT overcall is dangerous anyway when pard is broke, and when he isn't, he will bid something even if you have to pass holding a 1NT hand.

 

Do you agree with this?

I have not enough experience to tell whether it happens more often to miss a 17+ 8 HCP 3NT, or if it is more frequent to be doubled in 1NT without a decent runout to 2-of-a-suit.

 

2) SHOWING BIG BALANCED HANDS

Which is the better balanced hand you may pass ?

Do you pass an 18 balanced count ? a 19 ?

This affects the range shown by the takeout double followed by a NoTrump rebid.

Playing natural, I generally use 16-bad 19 for a natural 1NT overcall, and a good 19+ for Dbl/NT.

 

So the range for Dbl/NT is relatively high, but I can afford this since my 18 count hands are made almost justice by a natural 1NT overcall.

But, if I adopt the Raptor 1NT overcall, what should I do holding an 18 count ?

- pass: risks to miss a good game everytime pard has 7/8 HCP unsuited for blancing or overcalling

- dbl/NT: a clear overbid, much riskier than the natural 1NT overcall defined "dangerous" by Rptor fans.

 

3) RESPONDING TO A TAKEOUT DOUBLE

I suppose that thi is the real plus side of the Raptor: since pard has excluded offshape T/o dbl, the normal responses are more effective.

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

Thanks !!! :)

 

Mauro

[inquiry]

Dbl a minor then rebid 1NT is "lighter" than without raptor

Dbl then rebid 2NT is about the same as when not playing raptor

Minor suit overcalls deny (or strong tend to deny) 4 cards in an unbid major

 

For what it is worth, I don't miss the ability to make a natural 1NT overcall when I am playing raptor. I never liked that overcall anyway, as when I have a good hand and stuff in their suit, bidding seems wrong to me. Partner will protect you by balancing if he is short in their suit and the auction tries to die in one.

 

The big problem is if your RHO is a frequent psycher. You pass and your partner, also with legnth in their suit decides against balancing. So, not vul, against raptor guys, you might consider a psyche in third seat in a two or three card suit. This works wonders sometimes (disasters other times).

 

Ben

[hrothgar]

I play a Raptor style 1NT overcall in a variety of partnerships.

 

Almost inevitably, the decision to adopt Raptor leads us to make a wide variety of changes to the rest of our overcall structure. Most noteably, when playing Raptor, I find that it is best to adopt an overcall structure that allows you to overcall with with a 4 card suit at the one level. Suppose that RHO opens 1D and you hold

 

KQT4

A42

64

J983

 

I think that it is much better to immediately show where you live and overcall 1S rather than further overloading your takeout double.

 

Here is a description of the overcall structure that I current use over a 1C opening.

 

 

3S = Weak jump overcall

3H = weak jump overcall

3D = weak jump overcall

2N = Game forcing two suited hand (denies clubs)

2S = 5+ Spade and 5+ Clubs, intermediate strength

2H = 5+ Hearts and 5+ Spades, intermediate strength

2D = 5+ Diamonds and 5+ HEarts, intermediate strength

2C = Minimum strength "Pure" takeout double of clubs

1N = Raptor (5+ Diamonds and 4 cards in Hearts or Spades)

1S = 4+ Spades, could be balanced

1H = 4+ Hearts, could be balanced

1D = 4+ Diamonds, could be balanced

X = "Power" double with Herbert negative

[mikestar]

Raptor doesn't miss too many NT games provided that you:

• Play it in the direct seat only--balancing 1NT is natural.
  
• Your partner will balance with sufficient values even if long in the enemy suit.
  

Often you will outscore the field on a sequence like (1♥)-P-(P)-1NT-(P)-3NT because having the opening bidder on lead is on average even more valuable than having the strong hand declare.

[Chamaco]

Raptor doesn't miss too many NT games provided that you:

• ...............
  ...............
   
  
• Your partner will balance with sufficient values even if long in the enemy suit.
   
  

How much is sufficient values ?

Any example hand for a minimum balancing hand ?

 

I hate to balance with less than 11 with length in opps suit. :(

I think length in opps suit is a great indicator of trouble in the decision of marginal balancing, and a framework that requires me to do so may be somewhat discouraging to me... :(

[Chamaco]

Dbl a minor then rebid 1NT is "lighter" than without raptor

How much lighter ?

E.g. are these the suggested ranges ?

Dbl+1NT = 17+/19

Dbl+2Nt = 19+/22

 

Do you differentiate between

-Dbl+ 2NT up the line (e.g. advancer responds at the 2 level and the doubler bids 2NT)

- Dbl + *jump* to 2NT (advancer responds 1 of a suit and doubler jumps to 2NT)

 

Do you agree with Mikestar suggestion to balance more frequently with length in opps suit ?

If so, how light do you go?

Any example hand ?

 

Sorry, maybe many questions, but trying to get the idea of the entire overcalling/balancing framework that revolves around the use of Raptor :(

 

Thanks !! :(

[mishovnbg]

 

--------------------------------------

Hi Chamako!

There is no real problem with bal hands if you use to play scrambling rebid from doubler, by the way modern now style in europe. Example: (1♠)-dbl-(p)-2♣, (p)-2♦:(14)15-17(18)hcp, deny ♣ support, NF. With real ♦ and strong hand you can rebid 3♦. 2NT rebid remain same like in standard dbl.

Will be probably interesting for you I used to play with Boian long time any NT bid as "2 suited take out, offensive hand", similar to Raptor everywhere in competition. This way allow us to have nice "optional" doubles for light "overcallers" and "variable preempters". Example: 1♠-(2♥)-?

dbl: optional, bal or semi bal or missfit

2SP: std raise

2NT: minors, unbalanced, shortness in ♥ and semi support in ♠ or very offensive both minors hand

3♣/♦: nat, NF!!!

3♥: ask for stopper with unbalanced 1 suited minor hand

or slam interest with ♠ fit.

3♠: std raise, can be based on distribution

3NT: stopper with unbalanced 1 suited minor hand

4♣/♦/♥: splinter

 

 

--------------------------------------------------

Misho

[Chamaco]

Hi Chamako!

There is no real problem with bal hands if you use to play scrambling rebid from doubler, by the way modern now style in europe. Example: (1♠)-dbl-(p)-2♣, (p)-2♦:(14)15-17(18)hcp, deny ♣ support, NF. With real ♦ and strong hand you can rebid 3♦. 2NT rebid remain same like in standard dbl.

-------------Ciao Misho !!!------------ :)

 

I am a little concerned ;) of using scrambling sequences by doubler, such as the one you describe (also referred to as "Equal Level Conversion"- ELC).

 

The one thing that attracted me of Raptor 1NT was exactly the fact that it allowed to avoid offshape doubles, therefore Dbl + new suit was always a good reverse hand. :)

 

Having a balanced hand, I will rather pass any pard's bid , e.g. a 2♣ bid by responder even holding a doubleton.

[mikestar]

If you pass a 15-17 balanced hand, you willhave at least three cards in the enemy suit, so partner needn't balance with real length in the enemy suit, but probably should with 4 cards. I would go as low as a good 9. It is a little riskier than the 11 point minimum you suggest, but no too dangerous if partner takes the lower range into account.

 

When playing Raptor, you will quite likely want to adopt a "when in doubt, double" balancing philosophy--you have a better chance of getting them for penalties than when playing the natural NT overcall.

 

Apart from the issues cause by Raptor, all balancing actions are naturally wide range and you may want to look in to some balancing conventions.

[hrothgar]

As I noted earlier, many of these issues can be addressed by overcalling 4 card suits at the one level and bundling 16+ balanced hands into your direct seat double.

[mishovnbg]

Hi Chamako!

There is no real problem with bal hands if you use to play scrambling rebid from doubler, by the way modern now style in europe. Example: (1♠)-dbl-(p)-2♣, (p)-2♦:(14)15-17(18)hcp, deny ♣ support, NF. With real ♦ and strong hand you can rebid 3♦. 2NT rebid remain same like in standard dbl.

-------------Ciao Misho !!!------------ :D

 

I am a little concerned ;) of using scrambling sequences by doubler, such as the one you describe (also referred to as "Equal Level Conversion"- ELC).

 

The one thing that attracted me of Raptor 1NT was exactly the fact that it allowed to avoid offshape doubles, therefore Dbl + new suit was always a good reverse hand. :)

 

Having a balanced hand, I will rather pass any pard's bid , e.g. a 2♣ bid by responder even holding a doubleton.

If you like to learn more about scrambling rebids of bouble you can read M. Miles book about "21 century" :D . Misho