Forced preference?

[Hairy_Scot]

[hv=d=s&v=e&s=saj2hkq1075d8cakj8]133|100|Scoring: IMP

1♥-p-1♠-p

2♣-p-2♥-p

?[/hv]

 

What next, and why?

[paulg]

Isn't this a classic (maximum) 2♠?

 

I guess that opposite a solid response, as opposed to the "five spades to an honour is enough to respond" school, 3♠ has its appeal.

 

Paul

[kenrexford]

2♠ seems right opposite any school.

[han]

3S, this is too much for 2S.

[helene_t]

Yes, agree with Han.

[Finch]

Do you think 3S is forcing here?

[helene_t]

I don't think it's forcing, after all we have denied a GF by not jumpshifting and p has not shown extras.

[dcvetkov]

I guess you have to decide to be pessimist or optimist on this hand.

For all 3S bidders, what is pd supposed to bid with 4 spades and 2 hearts? Probably 3NT, but if he is really weak, I have strong doubts that this wrongsided 3NT will make.

 

If he has 5 spades, yes, 4s will likely make.

[TimG]

I guess you have to decide to be pessimist or optimist on this hand.

For all 3S bidders, what is pd supposed to bid with 4 spades and 2 hearts? Probably 3NT, but if he is really weak, I have strong doubts that this wrongsided 3NT will make.

 

If he has 5 spades, yes, 4s will likely make.

Why would it be wrong sided? Wouldn't we want responder's diamond stopper in declarer's hand?

[helene_t]

I think 3N is more likely to be rightsided than wrongsided. P could have a positional ♦ guard.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I would say, the hand is worth 3C, instead of 2C.

 

But if you think, 2C is enough, than I would say

2S it is.

 

I hate it, when partners switch style in the middle

of an auction.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[pclayton]

3♠ - too much for 2♠.

 

3♠ isn't forcing per se, but pard doesn't pass very often.

[han]

No, 3S is not forcing, I would have bid 3C if I wanted to force to game.

[han]

Hi,

 

I would say, the hand is worth 3C, instead of 2C.

 

But if you think, 2C is enough, than I would say

2S it is.

 

I hate it, when partners switch style in the middle

of an auction.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

OK, so what you are saying is that the auction 1H-1S-2C-2H-3S does not exist? There is no hand too strong for the 1H-1S-2C-2H-2S route that doesn't want to force to game.

 

I would bid 1H..2C..2S with a nice 14-count and would force to game with a 19-count. That seems a very wide range.

[pclayton]

No, 3S is not forcing, I would have bid 3C if I wanted to force to game.

Um what? I don't think 3♣ is stronger than 3♠, since it shows a 5-5 which will have more playing strength than a 3=5=1=4. 3♣ is not forcing.

 

Furthermore, we aren't broke when we bid 2♠, so 3♠ shows extraaaas.

 

Now 3♦ can potentially be a strong bid. I'd say thats forcing to 3♥.

[helene_t]

Han was refering to an immediate 3♣. Of course 3♣ is you 3rd turn is not forcing.

[xcurt]

No, 3S is not forcing, I would have bid 3C if I wanted to force to game.

Um what? I don't think 3♣ is stronger than 3♠, since it shows a 5-5 which will have more playing strength than a 3=5=1=4. 3♣ is not forcing.

 

Furthermore, we aren't broke when we bid 2♠, so 3♠ shows extraaaas.

 

Now 3♦ can potentially be a strong bid. I'd say thats forcing to 3♥.

3♠.

 

Now that we know partner has at least 2 hearts, he can't have 4 small spades and random garbage since that hand passes or bids 1NT forcing.

 

We need to bid 3♠ to get to the game facing SQxxxx and the HJ and some other random card.

[han]

Yes indeed. I am not sure about 1H-1S-2C-2H-3D btw, I think 1H-1S-2D-2H-3C is clearly NF but that auction is simpler.

[Finch]

I think 1H-1S-2D-2H-3C is clearly NF but that auction is simpler.

Do you?

 

It sounds jolly forcing to me...

[jdonn]

I think 1H-1S-2D-2H-3C is clearly NF but that auction is simpler.

Do you?

 

It sounds jolly forcing to me...

Not me. Opener is already limited so why can't responder pass a descriptive bid if it seems right? He could still be 4225 and quite weak.

[P_Marlowe]

<snip>

OK, so what you are saying is that the auction 1H-1S-2C-2H-3S does not exist? There is no hand too strong for the 1H-1S-2C-2H-2S route that doesn't want to force to game.

 

I would bid 1H..2C..2S with a nice 14-count and would force to game with a 19-count. That seems a very wide range.

Well, yes in essence, thats what I am saying.

 

But of course you would also force to game with

a nice 18 count, and you may not always bid 2S

with a terrible 15 count.

 

But I am not overly exicted at playing 3S with 43 fit.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[han]

I think 1H-1S-2D-2H-3C is clearly NF but that auction is simpler.

Do you?

 

It sounds jolly forcing to me...

The world's gone crazy, I think it's clearly NF and Frances thinks it's jolly forcing.

[Guest Jlall]

Comment 1: I think bidding 2C with this hand is a joke? I used to think I was like the most conservative jump shifter ever but no one has even mentioned that this is a really clear 3C bid to begin with so I guess I'm quite aggressive lol? This is 18 points with great honor location, 5431 and 3 of partner's suit. I'm all for 2C if the spades and diamonds are reversed but this hand is just way too good after a 1S bid to not be jump shifting. We make game easily opposite like, KQxxx and out etc etc. We make slam opposite a lot of hands that will not get there after our 2C bid unless we just drive it opposite a preference. I would also bid 3C easily without a black suit jack and wouldn't consider that close either.

 

Comment 2: Now you want to bid 2S after having bid 2C, and call that classic?!?!?! WOW! That is a very normal way to bid a hand with 3.5 less points of playing strength (some would say 4 even). You are just asking to miss game/slam bidding this way. At least bid 3S now to show a maximum non JS (even though you have more than that) with this shape.

 

Comment 3: I do not see how a non jump shift can make a NATURAL forcing bid opposite a hand that hasn't expressed anything extra. Maybe Frances considers the auction 1H p 1S p 2D P 2H p 3C as potentially artificial. To me it is a natural bid and thus cannot be logically forcing. Similarly I don't think 3S having bid 2C can be logically forcing since it is clearly a natural bid.