A bidding problem.

[han]

All red, 12-board team match.

 

x

QJ97

Q

AKQJxxx

 

(1S) - 2C - p - p

(2S) - ??

[helene_t]

You used to have more imagination with respect to thread titles, what happened to you, Han?

[Winstonm]

At this point there isn't right or wrong - this is the give-up hand when you do not play intermediate jump overcalls and choose weak jump overcalls.

 

I am not saying one is better than the other, just that if playing intermediate, you could have bid 3C then 4C over 3S and got across the message.

 

As it stands now, it looks like 2C, 3C, 4C will have to do the job.

[Winstonm]

You used to have more imagination with respect to thread titles, what happened to you, Han?

That wasn't this boring Han, guy. That was someone called Hannie who doesn't post anymore.

[rogerclee]

3♥ WTP.

[jdonn]

3♥ but I don't think it's wtp.

[kenrexford]

Interesting problem, despite the boring title.

 

The options I see (some not relevant, but included for discussion reasons):

 

X: flexible; might convert 3♦ to 3♥.

2NT: 6-4 minors

3♣: Bunch o' damn clubs

3♦: HUGE 6-4 minors

3♥: HUGE 6-4 heart/clubs, but no so notrumpy

3♠: Inviting 3NT, willing to play 4♣, problem (heart suit)

3NT: Inviting 3NT, willing to play 4♣, problem (heart suit), spade card

 

If this list is right, I think X looks right.

 

[Disclaimer: I'm on my third glass of pinot grigio.]

[the hog]

[Disclaimer: I'm on my third glass of pinot grigio.]

Whose Pinot Grigio? Have you tried Hofstaetter's from the Alto Adige?

 

Btw I bid 3H, but I don't like it.

[gnasher]

There's a good case for playing 2NT here as showing hearts, with double taking care of the 6331s, hands with four diamonds, etc.

[benlessard]

I dont have enough defense for X 2S im too afraid partner passes. 2Nt to show a 6-4 is perfect for this hand partner will probably bid 3D and ill correct to 3H. I cant see any problem with this hand.

[Finch]

edit: duplicate post

[Finch]

I dont have enough defense for X 2S im too afraid partner passes. 2Nt to show a 6-4 is perfect for this hand partner will probably bid 3D and ill correct to 3H. I cant see any problem with this hand.

The problem is that 2NT is usually taken to mean 4-6 in the minors.

If you happen to have an agreement with partner that isn't the meaning, that's fine, but otherwise your problem is going to be an auction continuing

 

2NT 3S 4D x

?

 

I am also a reluctant 3H bidder

[kenrexford]

[Disclaimer: I'm on my third glass of pinot grigio.]

Whose Pinot Grigio? Have you tried Hofstaetter's from the Alto Adige?

Cosentino Winery in Napa. Not bad.

[gnasher]

Without agreement, I'd assume that 2NT showed four of either red suit. This still has problems:

- LHO may bid 3♠ in front of partner.

- Even if he doesn't, partner may bid 3♣ with a 3=5=3=2 shape, leaving us no better placed than before.

[skjaeran]

3♥ for me too.

[neilkaz]

3♥ for me as well !

[P_Marlowe]

3C, a little bit boring.

 

I am pretty sure my regular partner would

bid 3H.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[mike777]

double. flexible.

tough problem.

 

As a side note I may have started with x over 1s.

[han]

For what it is worth, I asked two more strong players what they would do and both bid 3C. One offered 2NT as only reasonable alternative.

[Apollo81]

I'd bid 3♣

[kenrexford]

For what it is worth, I asked two more strong players what they would do and both bid 3C. One offered 2NT as only reasonable alternative.

Has anyone provided a difference between these two auctions:

 

2♣...2NT...(3♦)...3♥

2♣...X...(3♦)...3♥

 

I could imagine that 2NT shows 6-4 either way and that X implies 4-3/3-4/3-3 in the reds. But, it seems to me that the principles of the game seem to suggest some bid that assures partner of the heart suit.

[gnasher]

But, it seems to me that the principles of the game seem to suggest some bid that assures partner of the heart suit.

That's why I suggested that 2NT promise hearts, and double be used with diamonds, 1336, etc.

[benlessard]

There are 9 type of hands where you want to bid.

 

Long clubs

long clubs + H

long clubs+ D

long clubs + tol for both red.

 

These 4 categories can be in the weakish form with distribution or in the strongish form with extras defensive values.

 

The is also a 9th type of hands a strongish balanced hand with 5 clubs 3235/3325 with no S stopper.

 

There is 2 major style depending if a X would show extras values.

 

I believe that keeping the option for partner to pass 2Sx is essential if partner as long spades and limited values. So for me the X should clearly show some extras defensives values & that doubling with a weak distributionnal hand is out of the question.

 

So for that style.

X show extra defensive values (without perfect shapes) . partner can pass the X and he should use 2nt as a scramble as much as possible.

X and correcting show unperfect shapes. But with extras values

2Nt as to be reserved for distributionnal 2 suiters with no extra defensive values.

2Nt and correcting show C+H

3C can be weakish or strongish.

3D & 3H are very rare bids.

 

 

If you allow the X to be weakish then

 

X show perfect shapes or hearts or a very strong hand. Partner can only pass with a real trap and can use 2Nt as a lebensohl to show some values.

 

 

2Nt can be used to show a specific suit (because X and correcting to 3H doesnt show extras)

3C can be weakish or strongish

3D & 3H are rare bids.

Reversing 2Nt to show heart and X guarrantee diamond is a possibility.

[andy_h]

hmm idk.. without discussion 2NT, X and 3H may seem like 4D, 1336 and 6-5 respectively.

Don't mind either 3C or 3H i suppose

[whereagles]

3♥. Natural is beautiful.