you got preempted. how now?

[matmat]

playing pretty much standard,

matchpoints, all white, you hear:

 

1♦-(2♥)-?

 

you hold QJxxx QT 98xxx x

 

what call do you choose?

 

(fit jumps were not discussed, in case you're leaning that way)

[helene_t]

I lead my singleton club if p doesn't reopen.

[mikeh]

Give partner a mediocre hand such as A10xx x AKxx Jxxx and we have a good play for 4♠, and when 4♠ fails, 4♥ will make. Heck, our stiff club lead will let 4♥ make even when dummy has Kx in spades and a doubleton diamond.

 

The main point is that when partner has a reopening hand, the opps aren't playing 2♥.. they are in 3 or 4 hearts before he gets another turn, and we may be forever jammed out of the auction.

 

So I ain't passing: put me down for double... I would never do this without my fifth diamond.

[kenrexford]

Give partner a mediocre hand such as A10xx x AKxx Jxxx and we have a good play for 4♠, and when 4♠ fails, 4♥ will make. Heck, our stiff club lead will let 4♥ make even when dummy has Kx in spades and a doubleton diamond.

 

The main point is that when partner has a reopening hand, the opps aren't playing 2♥.. they are in 3 or 4 hearts before he gets another turn, and we may be forever jammed out of the auction.

 

So I ain't passing: put me down for double... I would never do this without my fifth diamond.

Although a sound point, I think I do this the other way. I pass, and then I bid whatever number of spades I must if 3♥ or 4♥ comes back at me.

[jdonn]

I think this is an easy pass. It's unfortunate that they hand may be passed out when we could do better in diamonds, but any action seems a clear overstatement of values.

[inquiry]

This is a horrible hand, and is clearly not up to "snuff" for a negative double. Having said that, I strongly agree with Mikeh.... it is time to mix it up. Partner may scream and shout when he sees how weak i am, but so be it. I will double with hand, with diamonds as the landing spot if partner bids clubs. Yes, it might go dbl all pass (glup), that is a necessary risk.

[the hog]

Agree with Helen. Clear pass - very poor hand.

[neilkaz]

Do I have adequate playing strength to force PD to 2♠ or 3♦...well probably at MP's I'll mix it up.

 

Do I have adequate defensive strength should PD want to get head hunting at some level of ♥, most likely not, but PF should have something cards in ♥ and then my QT may be useful. (likely a garbage overcallwas made).

 

OK I lean toward negX at MP's white vs white, negX for sure white vs red, pass for sure if red.

 

Imps, I pass no matter what, unless white vs red and expecting to need a swing as the risk of going for a big number when PD overcompetes (expecting me to have more) or makes a penalty double that I likely can't risk leaving in at Imps is too great for me.

[Codo]

I agree with Mike and don't think that the hand is as weak as it looks.

 

Double shows around 8 HCPs and 4 Spades here, so this hand is surely not much weaker then a hand like:

Kxxx,x,Qxxx,Kxxx

 

Even here, where the double normaly shows some clubs besides the spades, I have no problem with the offshape double. If Pd bids x Clubs, I can bid x Diamonds without much problems. IF he had opened 1 Club and my minors had been reversed too, the problem had been much bigger.

[andy_h]

I think I X, but not liking it. Only will I do this in MP and white, anything else and I pass.

[helene_t]

Although a sound point, I think I do this the other way. I pass, and then I bid whatever number of spades I must if 3♥ or 4♥ comes back at me.

I don't think this shows spades+diamonds. P probably reads it as a weak hand with lots of spades.

 

But I don't care for double. P will take me for more values than I have and double a making 5♥ or bid 3NT. Or maybe convert my double. Or bid clubs and then go for slam when I convert to diamonds. Besides the dbl doesn't show my fifth spade.

 

If a direct fit-showing 3♠ is available, at least that gives an idea of my shape. But I don't think I have grown sufficient synapses to do that either.

[kenrexford]

Although a sound point, I think I do this the other way.  I pass, and then I bid whatever number of spades I must if 3♥ or 4♥ comes back at me.

I don't think this shows spades+diamonds. P probably reads it as a weak hand with lots of spades.

 

But I don't care for double. P will take me for more values than I have and double a making 5♥ or bid 3NT. Or maybe convert my double. Or bid clubs and then go for slam when I convert to diamonds. Besides the dbl doesn't show my fifth spade.

 

If a direct fit-showing 3♠ is available, at least that gives an idea of my shape. But I don't think I have grown sufficient synapses to do that either.

My partner will understand. Any bid that sounds too strong for prior decisions must be based on a fit. Thus, passing 2♥ when I could have bid or shown spades, and then backing in with spades, must show diamonds. As I could have shown diamonds earlier, I must be unbalanced with a second suit. Not only \do the odds favor my having the suit I bid as the second suit, but majors are preferred, especially spades over hearts.

[Apollo81]

I'd pass. This hand will be great when we have a spade fit, but not so good otherwise. I don't want to get partner too excited.

[gnasher]

I'd bid 3D, which I don't think shows more than competitive values. Maybe it will go (3H) pass (pass), and I can get my spades in without overstatement.

 

If partner bids 3NT over 3D, he probably has a strong balanced hand. I'll bid 4S, which may provoke a look of puzzlement, but will probably get the dummy on the grounds that no other interpretation makes sense. How else do you bid these hands?

[pclayton]

I'm doubling and I think its fairly clear. We have safety in diamonds and if pard bids 4♠ over 4♥, there are many ways it can win.

 

Yes I have a piece of garbage. But its fitting garbage.

[dcvetkov]

I'm doubling and I think its fairly clear. We have safety in diamonds and if pard bids 4♠ over 4♥, there are many ways it can win.

 

Yes I have a piece of garbage. But its fitting garbage.

I agree with this. But problem is partner will play you for more values and I expect bidding will escalate. What is you bid then they bid 4H and partners doubles? Do you like your chances defending or you run to 5♦?

[helene_t]

What is you bid then they bid 4H and partners doubles? Do you like your chances defending or you run to 5♦?

5♦ pretty clear here. Partner's double shows values, it is not a unilateral penalty double. My only concern would be whether p would bid 6/7 and/or redouble the final diamond contract, or double 5♥.

[mikeh]

If partner doubles 4♥, I pass.

 

He almost surely won't be doubling when they can make 5, and I have an easy, and obvious to partner, stiff club lead. I am NOT pulling. They've made doubled games against me in the past and will do so again in the future.

 

Passing over the overcall out of fear that partner will double a cold 4♥ is not an enjoyable way to play the game.

 

I am often a glass half empty kind of player, but I think this is a glass almost completely dry approach.

 

Look at it this way: they make and win 5 imps. On hands where you pass, you may miss a double game swing. How many imps is that?

[jdonn]

What do doublers do if partner rebids 3NT? Pass, or pull and pretend that shows a 3 count?

[ArtK78]

If partner doubles 4♥, I pass.

 

He almost surely won't be doubling when they can make 5, and I have an easy, and obvious to partner, stiff club lead. I am NOT pulling. They've made doubled games against me in the past and will do so again in the future.

 

Passing over the overcall out of fear that partner will double a cold 4♥ is not an enjoyable way to play the game.

 

I am often a glass half empty kind of player, but I think this is a glass almost completely dry approach.

 

Look at it this way: they make and win 5 imps. On hands where you pass, you may miss a double game swing. How many imps is that?

You may lose a lot more than 5 IMPs. Partner will assume that you have some values and at least 4 spades. He will not assume that you hold 5 diamonds, jeopardizing some of his defensive tricks. He will also not assume that your values are so minimal (sub-minimal?). He may be doubling a cold game not realizing that you have a game in diamonds.

 

Passing partner's double of 4♥ after making a negative double may be compouding the original overbid (the negative double).

[mikeh]

What do doublers do if partner rebids 3NT? Pass, or pull and pretend that shows a 3 count?

wow.. where do you find your 2♥ overcallers? I hold Q10 of hearts, I make a negative double and opener can rebid 3N???

 

And, when he rebids 3N, I have to devalue that Q10 of hearts to a zero count????? What.. is he bidding 3N on a stiff A? Ok, Kx would largely devalue my hearts, but we really have to be pessimistic to adopt that idea, don't we?

 

That possibility really has to rate pretty low on the 'what could go wrong' scale B)

 

And if he does bid 3N, maybe he will make it.

 

I really, truly don't understand the paranoia here. Yes, we are (significantly) underweight for the double, but maybe our 5th cards in either or both of our suits will compensate. This hand could easily carry the same weight as QJxx Qx QJxx xxx and, while that isn't a great negative double either, I doubt that we'd be getting all this static and panic if we proposed doubling here.

 

Kx Axx AKxxx KQx.. yes, he'd going to bid 3N. Am I unhappy? Not in this lifetime.

 

Yes, we can construct other hands on which he is bidding 3N where our prospects aren't quite as good ;) But, other than Ken's unilateral approach of passing and then bidding 4♠ over 4♥, I still have yet to see any of the original passers really wrestle with the idea that LHO might be raising hearts (or bidding clubs... admittedly a lesser possibility).. beyond accepting that we have been fixed!

[mikeh]

He may be doubling a cold game not realizing that you have a game in diamonds.

I must have missed something. You are worrying that we may be missing 5♦. You are assuming that partner will double 4♥ with a hand on which we can't beat it and we can make 5♦?

 

Hummmm... I'd like to see that layout. Partner has a heart trick and we lead a club and we can't beat it? And don't tell me that partner doesn't have a heart trick and can both double 4♥ and make 5♦. Wow.

 

Even more importantly, in terms of your argument... I really, really want to see your construction of an auction on which they reach a cold 4♥ after you pass and you reach a cold 5♦. Who is going to make that magic bid after your original pass???

 

Art, I almost always understand and usually agree with your posts, but I think you have allowed your dislike of the double of 2♥ to make you really stretch your arguments, as has Josh with his comment about opener rebidding 3N and we having to be scared of it.

[ArtK78]

Kxx

AK

AKQxx

JTx

 

I don't think this is too far-fetched. If the opponents diamonds are 3-0 or their spades are 4-1 and you don't get a club ruff, 4♥ is cold. Meanwhile, you make 5♦ unless spades are 4-1 and they get a spade ruff.

 

Yes, you may beat 4♥ a trick on a club ruff. But sometimes you don't get the club ruff. More likely, if diamonds are 3-0 and spades are 4-1, the club ruff holds them to 10 tricks. After all, what are they bidding on?

 

Partner could also have one more diamond and one less club or spade. And you might not be able to beat 4♥ anyway.

 

Mike, I am allergic to double game swings at IMPs. ;)

[jdonn]

wow.. where do you find your 2♥ overcallers? I hold Q10 of hearts, I make a negative double and opener can rebid 3N???

Sure, why is that so unlikely? You went a little question mark crazy with your disbelief there.

 

And, when he rebids 3N, I have to devalue that Q10 of hearts to a zero count?????

No, if you are passing it has value. If you are pulling it doesn't. I only implied you wouldn't count value for the queen of hearts if you were pulling the double. So this comment of yours is a misinterpretation.

 

I really, truly don't understand the paranoia here. Yes, we are (significantly) underweight for the double

Come on Mike. Read the first part of that comment, then the second part. Then tell me why you really truly can't understand why being significantly underweight for my bid shouldn't make me paranoid about what might happen :)

 

FWIW, happy as I am to have a supporter, I don't find Art's example above plausible since they will never be bidding 4♥, not to mention it's a 2NT opener.

[mikeh]

Kxx

AK

AKQxx

JTx

 

I don't think this is too far-fetched.  If the opponents diamonds are 3-0 or their spades are 4-1, 4♥ is cold. 

Ummmmm... not too far-fetched?

 

They are white v white. RHO overcalled on at most a J high suit and LHO raised to game on at most xxx? And this is not too far-fetched? You play in a different environment than I do if your opps routinely bid like this.

 

And, btw, why did partner open 1♦ with a 3=2=5=3 20 count? My partners tend to open 2N with that hand :)

 

I accept that you would have cobbled together your example hand in a hurry, as I usually do in this forum, but if this is that hand we have to worry about when we double 2♥, I'm not going to lose much sleep over it.