Third seat opener?

[Gerben42]

You play "Swiss Acol" which means that you play a 5-card ♠ opening, 1♥ can be four if 4-4 majors, with 4M333 you open 1♣. At least in theory.

 

Your hand is now:

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=skqtxhaxxxdjxxcxx]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

The "system bid" is of course Pass or 1♥, but you want a ♠ lead. Maybe you want to open a minor so you can pass whatever partner bids next. So what's your poison?

[helene_t]

I see no advantage of 1m relative to 1♥.

[jtfanclub]

I'm the only passer. Wowsers.

[Apollo81]

1♠ for the lead.

[the hog]

1S at MP is mandatory

[effervesce]

1♠. Would do so even at IMPs if fav vul.

[han]

This is in third seat? 1S then.

[pclayton]

1♠ at all forms of scoring except r/w. 1♦ is pointless.

 

1♥ has some superficial attraction, only because we keep both majors in play, but I think the lead is more important.

[Apollo81]

1♠ at all forms of scoring except r/w.

I wouldn't do it red/red either, fearing down 2 undoubled.

[jtfanclub]

OK, somebody explain this logic to me.

 

What is the point of bidding here, exactly? I don't think my bid's going to have much of a pre-emptive effect. I think it is likely to to convince my partner to bid 3 over 3, where we'll go down 1 or 2.

 

If the hand gets passed out, I suspect I'll be happy. Even if we could make 2 of a major, it may be very difficult to stop there.

 

If LHO opens and partner bids, I'll be very happy. I would much rather, for example, know about a 5 card diamond suit in partner's hand than about 3 card spade support.

 

If LHO opens, partner passes, and RHO says something at the 2♦ level or less, I'll have a fairly easy call. If it's higher, hell, they're welcome to it.

 

Is there a particular reason or body of evidence that opening here is 'mandatory'? I like opening light as much as the next guy, but only with shape.

[brianshark]

Holding 10 pts, our partnership rates to have half the points in the deck and holding 4-4 in the Majors, our partnership rates to have a slight advantage in terms of major length, which means we have a greater than 50% chance of owning the best partial, which means the deal being passed out rates to be bad.

 

Also, partner can see you are in 3rd seat non-vul as well so shouldn't go overboard competing to the 3-level for the partscore.

[hotShot]

Holding 10 pts, our partnership rates to have half the points in the deck

The average strength of 1seat and 2nd seat is 8HCP, so we the average is 18(we):22(them).

and holding 4-4 in the Majors, our partnership rates to have a slight advantage in terms of major length, which means we have a greater than 50% chance of owning the best partial, which means the deal being passed out rates to be bad.

Passout will be a good score, because opps are stronger than we are, they have to score to win.

Also, partner can see you are in 3rd seat non-vul as well so shouldn't go overboard competing to the 3-level for the partscore.

You will like this behavior until you have good cards in 3rd seat......

[jdonn]

1♠ on this suit is automatic to me in 3rd seat. Sure you will (maybe) regret if it was going to be a passout, but more likely LHO has enough to open and you can both preempt him and get your best lead.

[jdonn]

Even if we could make 2 of a major, it may be very difficult to stop there.

Isn't this what drury is for? In fact I don't think it's standard, but I play 2♥ over drury is natural and less than an opener, NF, so I don't even have to worry about partner being 3-4 in the majors.

[Apollo81]

I don't think my bid's going to have much of a pre-emptive effect.

 

1♠ has great preemptive effect. For instance you're LHO and you have Ax KJxx xx KQxxx, your call.

 

If the hand gets passed out, I suspect I'll be happy.

 

Unless P also has a 4-card major with 10+ hcp

 

If LHO opens and partner bids, I'll be very happy.

 

...-(1♦)-2♣-(p), your call

 

I would much rather, for example, know about a 5 card diamond suit in partner's hand than about 3 card spade support.

 

...-(1[CL)-1♦-(1♥)-2♣-(3♣)....pard is 4252

 

Even if we could make 2 of a major, it may be very difficult to stop there.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drury_convention

 

If LHO opens, partner passes, and RHO says something at the 2♦ level or less, I'll have a fairly easy call.  If it's higher, hell, they're welcome to it. 

 

...-(1NT)-P-(3NT), happy?

 

Is there a particular reason or body of evidence that opening here is 'mandatory'?  I like opening light as much as the next guy, but only with shape.

 

1♠ opening directs a good lead (leading is hard), preempts them out of the 1-level (bidding after opps open is usually harder), and won't get us too high since pard is a PH, and we're even NV at MPs so -1 or -2 may be a good score. Remove some of these horses and it's no longer a clear opener.

[jtfanclub]

Isn't this what drury is for?

OK, assume for the moment that you're playing with a partner who will not, under any circumstances, play Drury. But she pays well and is a good player otherwise.

 

Is this still a 3rd seat opener?

[han]

OK, assume for the moment that you're playing with a partner who will not, under any circumstances, play Drury.

I don't see any reason for making such an assumption. My partners have their preferences and can be stubborn at times but are never that stubborn.

 

Assume that you are playing with a partner who always jumps to 4S any time she has 3-card support, would you still open 1S?

 

Heck no!

[kfay]

I pass. I'm happy if partner leads ♥ or ♠... seems like fair odds.

 

I'll bid 1♠ if I had a redbull right before the set or something.

[han]

I pass.

I'm going to send this to the printer.

[jtfanclub]

I don't see any reason for making such an assumption. My partners have their preferences and can be stubborn at times but are never that stubborn.

And you've played Swiss Acol how many times?

 

Why would you assume that system includes Drury as standard?

[han]

I didn't assume it.

[helene_t]

OK, assume for the moment that you're playing with a partner who will not, under any circumstances, play Drury.

I don't see any reason for making such an assumption. My partners have their preferences and can be stubborn at times but are never that stubborn.

I don't think Drury is playable in a 12-14 1NT 4cM context. Responder needs to be able to show a non-fitting (9)10-11 count as distinct from a non-fitting 6-8(9) count.

 

But maybe Gerben played 14-16 in 3rd seat?

[Finch]

There are some extremely good and successful players (dburn is an obvious example) who refuse to play Drury.

 

Personally I'm surprised at the strength of feeling this hand is generating. I certainly wouldn't open anything other than 1S, but between 1S and pass I don't think it's a big deal.

[P_Marlowe]

<snip>

 

Personally I'm surprised at the strength of feeling this hand is generating. I certainly wouldn't open anything other than 1S, but between 1S and pass I don't think it's a big deal.

Thanks.

 

I am leaning towards Pass, but if I open, it would be 1S.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[skjaeran]

I've opened 1♠ with such a hand for as long as I can remember.