World Class Player, Flight C?

[Guest movingon]

I played against a player in ACBL tournaments here who identified his play level as "World Class"...

His name was the same name of a very fine player that I played against on another site, but i do not know if it actually was the same person or not. Anyway, I noted that this player has been placing in Flight C. This person is from another country.

Is it usual here on BBO for players from other countries to be able to play in a flight beneath their actual skill level?

[uday]

Send an email to acbl@bridgebase (.com) with the name of the person in question - we might be able to find out more.

 

As to your question - it is easy to play "below skill level" either offline or online, and i imagine it is easier online.

[CSGibson]

I was under the impression that flights are not decided by skill level, but by ACBL masterpoints.

[jtfanclub]

I was under the impression that flights are not decided by skill level, but by ACBL masterpoints.

As far as I know (and I'm an ACBL director, though I don't direct ACBL games online), there is no obligation in a flighted game to "play up" to your actual skill level. There is an obligation in some bracketed events.

 

If you have one master point, you're a Flight C player for flighted events, no matter how many world championships you have under your belt.

 

(For those who don't know, a Flighted event is where everybody plays together but extra awards may be given for low masterpoint players. In Bracketed events, only the best players play each other, then the next lower play each other, etc. Many Knockouts are Bracketed).

[mycroft]

There is a regulation in the ACBL (see Page 2 of the ACBL Tech Files (out of date, but these haven't been superseded) that basically says "if you're an A player in <decent bridge country>, then you're an A player here no matter how many masterpoints you have; if you've played for your country, you can't play in a masterpoint-limited game". (Similarly for Bracketed games; see the DIC can say section).

 

Of course, it's up to either the organizer of the tournament to know the person, or the player herself to own up to her skill; it's easy to get around. If the player truly is World Class (and not self-rating the way some World Class players rate themselves Novice), then we should know who she is. If she's a "star" player, we do know.

[blackshoe]

I read in the excellent Preempts from A to Z that Sabine Zenkel (now Auken, I believe) achieved ACBL Life Master status in some 8 weeks, beating Jeremy Flint's previous (11 week, I think) record. Along the way, she had to get special permission to play in the Life Master Pairs (or some similar high level tournament) at an NABC because she wasn't a LM yet. (IIRC, she won the event). I don't know, but I would imagine that she had some experience playing bridge in her home country (Germany, I believe) before she came here. :-) It may well be that she was or could have been classified "Flight A" for ACBL events the day she arrived in this country.

[matmat]

are monsterpoints really this important to people?

[Mbodell]

I read in the excellent Preempts from A to Z that Sabine Zenkel (now Auken, I believe) achieved ACBL Life Master status in some 8 weeks, beating Jeremy Flint's previous (11 week, I think) record. Along the way, she had to get special permission to play in the Life Master Pairs (or some similar high level tournament) at an NABC because she wasn't a LM yet. (IIRC, she won the event). I don't know, but I would imagine that she had some experience playing bridge in her home country (Germany, I believe) before she came here. :-) It may well be that she was or could have been classified "Flight A" for ACBL events the day she arrived in this country.

That's a record that may be very hard to break as it would be pretty hard to accumulate 300 points including 50 black in <2 months while also playing enough non-club games to get the 50 silver, 25 gold, 25 red/gold, and 300 total.

[jtfanclub]

That's a record that may be very hard to break as it would be pretty hard to accumulate 300 points including 50 black in <2 months while also playing enough non-club games to get the 50 silver, 25 gold, 25 red/gold, and 300 total.

You don't need any black points.

 

You can get 250 gold points in a couple of events in Nationals. Silver is the toughest.

[Mbodell]

Any new member or player in an inactive status for six months or more after Jan. 1, 1999, will be required to earn 50 black points to become a Life Master.

 

So if you were trying to set this record you'd need to be a new player to the ACBL and you'd need the full 50 black. I agree that, after black, silver would be the toughest (for a WC player who could win gobs of gold at a nationals). But really 1 or 2 sectionals is enough for 50 silver. It is the blacks that come in most clubs 1 at a time that would be toughest to squeeze in.

[mike777]

Any new member or player in an inactive status for six months or more after Jan. 1, 1999, will be required to earn 50 black points to become a Life Master.

 

So if you were trying to set this record you'd need to be a new player to the ACBL and you'd need the full 50 black. I agree that, after black, silver would be the toughest (for a WC player who could win gobs of gold at a nationals). But really 1 or 2 sectionals is enough for 50 silver. It is the blacks that come in most clubs 1 at a time that would be toughest to squeeze in.

I think you could earn those 50 black points online here at BBO that would count towards LM status. <_<

 

Max 2pts per hour. :o

[Elianna]

Any new member or player in an inactive status for six months or more after Jan. 1, 1999, will be required to earn 50 black points to become a Life Master.

 

So if you were trying to set this record you'd need to be a new player to the ACBL and you'd need the full 50 black. I agree that, after black, silver would be the toughest (for a WC player who could win gobs of gold at a nationals). But really 1 or 2 sectionals is enough for 50 silver. It is the blacks that come in most clubs 1 at a time that would be toughest to squeeze in.

I think you could earn those 50 black points online here at BBO that would count towards LM status. ;)

Those points are not black, they are colorless.

[barmar]

And only half the points requires to achieve LM status are allowed to be earned online.

[mike777]

And only half the points requires to achieve LM status are allowed to be earned online.

we only need 50 not 250

 

i repeat..........we only need how many offline so you guys can make a living?

 

I guess we cannot earn 50 blacks online oh well. I admit I am confused...what the heck do we need?

 

Please repeat why are not earning black...silver...gold...-platinum online?

 

>>Please repeat why?...not what...but why?

[matmat]

And only half the points requires to achieve LM status are allowed to be earned online.

we only need 50 not 250

 

i repeat..........we only need how many offline so you guys can make a living?

 

I guess we cannot earn 50 blacks online oh well. I admit I am confused...what the heck do we need?

 

Please repeat why are not earning black...silver...gold...-platinum online?

 

>>Please repeat why?...not what...but why?

wtf are you smoking?

[jtfanclub]

Please repeat why are not earning black...silver...gold...-platinum online?

Because cheating online is rampant, and would be even worse if 'pigmented' points could be won.

[Elianna]

why are not earning black...silver...gold...-platinum online?

For silver/red/gold, probably as jtfanclub says. Though I don't necessarily agree with the rampant cheating claim, but I do agree that's the perception for some people.

 

For black: The black point requirement was basically to get people to go to clubs. If they're offered online, the theory is that the clubs will suffer.

[matmat]

why are not earning black...silver...gold...-platinum online?

For silver/red/gold, probably as jtfanclub says. Though I don't necessarily agree with the rampant cheating claim, but I do agree that's the perception for some people.

 

For black: The black point requirement was basically to get people to go to clubs. If they're offered online, the theory is that the clubs will suffer.

Online games are a much less controlled environment. I agree that perhaps blatant cheating is not as rampant as some think, but it is certainly a possibility. Other forms are a lot harder to police -- such as stalling, breaks in tempo, et.

 

there is also the problem that online tournaments lack the seriousness and commitment from players. In a face-to-face sectional/regional or whatever, everyone is gathered to play bridge, online you have what? a bunch of people who are probably distracted by a zillion other things and have no intention on focusing on the cards.

 

Online should have its own color, if nothing else then just for amusement.

 

As for the black point requirement... Forcing people to pay money to play against (mostly) poor level opponents and bitter people is not obviously a cash-making scheme.

 

It would be a lot better if the clubs had to sustain themselves without the benefit/promise of giving out necessary masterpoints, purely through making the game enjoyable for everyone.

[Elianna]

It would be a lot better if the clubs had to sustain themselves without the benefit/promise of giving out necessary masterpoints, purely through making the game enjoyable for everyone.

I agree that it would be better, but this is how it was before the black point requirement. And for the most part, it is how the clubs sustain themselves, but they're very jealous of their proprietorship of local, everyday play, and so they get ACBL to try to maintain rules that serve to promote club attendance.

 

Also, at least at my local club, most of the people are LMs (or joined eons ago) and so don't need to worry about black points. And they keep coming back for the most part.

[jtfanclub]

why are not earning black...silver...gold...-platinum online?

For silver/red/gold, probably as jtfanclub says. Though I don't necessarily agree with the rampant cheating claim, but I do agree that's the perception for some people.

I should clarify that by cheating, I don't necessarily mean that they are calling each other or using a kibbitzer to look at opponent's hands or the like.

 

I will confess that when teaching another person how to play Precision, they will often have a cheat sheet on how to bid Precision, and when I'm playing with a new partner, I will often look at our convention card to see, for example, what form of Blackwood we're using. Both of these are common online, but both would be considered cheating offline.

[bid_em_up]

And only half the points requires to achieve LM status are allowed to be earned online.

ummm, I believe it is only 1/3 (not 1/2) that are allowed to be applied to any "rank" status.

 

So for Life Master, only 100 points can be colorless, the rest must be pigmented.

[bid_em_up]

I read in the excellent Preempts from A to Z that Sabine Zenkel (now Auken, I believe) achieved ACBL Life Master status in some 8 weeks, beating Jeremy Flint's previous (11 week, I think) record. Along the way, she had to get special permission to play in the Life Master Pairs (or some similar high level tournament) at an NABC because she wasn't a LM yet. (IIRC, she won the event). I don't know, but I would imagine that she had some experience playing bridge in her home country (Germany, I believe) before she came here. :-) It may well be that she was or could have been classified "Flight A" for ACBL events the day she arrived in this country.

That's a record that may be very hard to break as it would be pretty hard to accumulate 300 points including 50 black in <2 months while also playing enough non-club games to get the 50 silver, 25 gold, 25 red/gold, and 300 total.

Black points may be won at locations other than clubs. They are also awarded at sectionals, regionals, and I suspect, even nationals. So that 50 black points could easily be obtained while playing at one of the other higher level tournaments.

[Mbodell]

I read in the excellent Preempts from A to Z that Sabine Zenkel (now Auken, I believe) achieved ACBL Life Master status in some 8 weeks, beating Jeremy Flint's previous (11 week, I think) record. Along the way, she had to get special permission to play in the Life Master Pairs (or some similar high level tournament) at an NABC because she wasn't a LM yet. (IIRC, she won the event). I don't know, but I would imagine that she had some experience playing bridge in her home country (Germany, I believe) before she came here. :-) It may well be that she was or could have been classified "Flight A" for ACBL events the day she arrived in this country.

That's a record that may be very hard to break as it would be pretty hard to accumulate 300 points including 50 black in <2 months while also playing enough non-club games to get the 50 silver, 25 gold, 25 red/gold, and 300 total.

Black points may be won at locations other than clubs. They are also awarded at sectionals, regionals, and I suspect, even nationals. So that 50 black points could easily be obtained while playing at one of the other higher level tournaments.

I'm pretty sure you are wrong. I don't recall ever getting black points not at a club. Generally at nationals you get red points for non-gold non-platinum results. The ACBL page says:

 

[black] points are awarded for success in sanctioned club games and unit games. There are some special events (usually conducted at clubs) that award points where some portion of the award will be in black points and the remainder will be in another color.

 

Even district qualifiers for "grass roots" events like NAP give red/gold points not black.

[runewell]

And only half the points requires to achieve LM status are allowed to be earned online.

1/3 of the pts to achieve a rank can be online, not 1/2 (unless it changed recently). So only 100 online pts toward the 300 needed. Lots of misinformation. I didn't think the definition of flighted above was right either, sounds like stratified to me.

When I think flighted I think strataflighted swiss. Stratafied is everyone plays everyone, A/B/C. Strataflighted means A/X plays separate, B/C/D plays separate but the flights are stratafied. So I would think Flighted is the separation into different playing groups.

But what do I know.

[barmar]

And only half the points requires to achieve LM status are allowed to be earned online.

1/3 of the pts to achieve a rank can be online, not 1/2 (unless it changed recently). So only 100 online pts toward the 300 needed.

Yes, bid_em_up already pointed out my mistake 2 weeks ago. Thanks for reiterating that my memory isn't perfect.