Bid now, later, or never

[brianshark]

1st seat, nobody vul, matchpoints, you hold:

 

♠A98632 ♥KT74 ♦72 ♣9

 

Your options are:

 

Pass

1♠ = 5+, 11-17

2♦ = Weak with 6+ in a Major

2♥ = weak with 5+5+ in ♥ and another suit (pretty strict about 5+5+)

 

Your bidding style is fairly normal pre-empts, weak 2s and openings.

 

What's your call?

 

 

[Part 2]

If you pass, the auction goes:

 

Pass - 1NT - Pass - 2♣

 

Do you bid now?

[helene_t]

1) Pass, I believe a multi must be more disciplined than a natural preempt because it is less disturbing to opps and because it leaves less options for game tries.

 

2) Pass, don't see what 2♠ can achieve (OK, a spade lead against 3NT).

[whereagles]

I think I'll go with a multi here.

[effervesce]

Pass. 1st alternative: 1♠.

[Codo]

1. pass

2. 2 Spade- it is matchpoints.

[P_Marlowe]

#1 pass

#2 2S

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Apollo81]

1. Pass

2. Pass

 

This is absolutely the wrong hand for a preempt. In fact I would have trouble constructing a more wrong hand. Axxxxx is the worst possible suit, and you even have a side 4-card major!

 

On the second, not only is this an easy pass, but I cannot think of ANY auction where I would want to balance when it comes back to me other than maybe 2♦PP.

[han]

Pass and pass, this is clear. Very surprised anybody is considering bidding the second time.

[pclayton]

Doesn't anyone know how to freakin' pass anymore?

 

Some of these problems just slay me.

[whereagles]

Pass and pass, this is clear. Very surprised anybody is considering bidding the second time.

Certainly not 2nd time, which is far more dangerous than opening.

[jdonn]

Easy pass both times. Opening 2♠ on this kind of hand is the sort of bid that gets you playing your heart slam at the 2 level.

[andy_h]

pass and pass. Not that great of a 6card suit with a decent side 4cM

[the hog]

Pass and pass. wtp?

[neilkaz]

pass and pass. Not that great of a 6card suit with a decent side 4cM

Exactly and even playing std Am weak 2's I don't bid 2♠ here. I don't hate a 2♠ bid in Std Am, but it isn't for me.

 

Bidding on the 2nd turn offers the opps a fielder's choice. Opener can dble with some of your missing ♠ honors or just pass it around if unsure what to do.

 

Getting a ♠ is nice, and it is MP, but getting drilled on a part score hand isn't so nice if the opps weren't going to game.

 

Also the opps may suffer in 4♥ anyhow, and you may do just fine w/out a ♠ lead.

[brianshark]

I personally think that at all white at matchpoints, this hand should definitely be competing to the 2-level. But it is obviously very wrong to open first time because of the 4 card side-major. So I passed fully intending to interfere on the second round.

 

And when the auction went 1NT on my left and 2♣ on my right, I gave brief thought to passing because the opps may have my majors... but lets put it this way, I have 3 guaranteed ♠ tricks because even if pard is void, ♠s will break no worse that 4-3. :o

 

Anyway, I gave this hand to two friends of mine who are strong experts (much stronger players than me). They both said they'd pass the 1st round, and then I told them the auction and both said they'd bid 2♠.

 

The problem was that pard hitched over 1NT. He had something along the lines of ♠KTJx ♥Ax ♦x ♣KQ98xx. We have no systemic bid for that hand because over a weak NT, Dbl is 15+, 2♣ is the Majors and the rest natural. Rather than jumping to 3♣ and possibly losing the ♠s, he decided to pass and wait and see. Kinda ironic.

 

Anyway, we ended up bidding to 4♠ and opps to 5♦ being doubled off 1. The director adjusted to 2♦ making +2 for an absolute top for the opps.

 

Among my list of gripes are:

- He said I can't bid 2♠ because I judged my hand not worth opening by passing - which is not true - I passed because systemically we don't open a weak 2 with a side 4 card major.

- The entire room were in 4♠ making or 5♦ -1 or -2, sometimes doubled, sometimes not.

 

But I guess since about half of ye don't think 2♠ should be bid on the second round, maybe I should have just passed.

[Walddk]

1. Pass. I do not open a weak two with a hand that is suitable as dummy in the other major.

 

2. Pass. Getting in now is suicidal, especially after Stayman to my right. If you bid 2♠ now, you have offered the opponents self-sevice. They will take 300-500 when it's right.

 

I am not much of an MP player myself, but I am sure that the majority of expert players think this is a clear pass - on both counts. If this is a case of hesitation before partner's pass over 1NT, I will not allow 2♠ if that turns out to be the winning call.

 

Roland

[whereagles]

I'm not sure Director got it right. Hesitation over 1NT does not necessarily make it more likely a spade bid will suceed. In fact, if pard had like a 55 in the minors and was wondering whether to bid 2NT or not (or whatever gadget you have for that hand), bidding spades now could be very bad.

 

For redress to be due, it has to be clear that the hesitation suggested an action over the others. In this case it didn't seem to suggest "bid" over "pass" unless your system systematically passes minor 1 or 2 suiters over 1NT.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

the argument of the director is wrong, just because I did

not open 2S does not mean I cant bid 2S later.

 

But given the fact that bidding 2S over the Stayman bid is

not risk free, after all given my poor suit, trumps well

being 4-2, bidding I risks going for 300-500, so pass is

certainly LA.

And the hesitation shows values, which makes bidding more

attractive, i.e. I agree with the final decision.

 

What I dont understand is, that there was no alert at all,

did the 2C bid promise a 4 card mayor?

After all the guy could at most hold 1 spade and 5HCP, i.e.

weak with 4-4 in the mayor is out.

What was his plan over a 2S response by partner?

 

Bidding gets more attractive, if 2C does not necesarilly

promises 4 cards in a mayor.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[brianshark]

2NT would probably be minors. 2♣ would be both majors and other bids are natural, so the only suit he can't (easily) show as a single-suit is clubs - which doesn't exactly make my hand look nicer.

[whereagles]

I agree the hesitation shows values. But it is debateable whether it makes bidding safer. Given RHO has staymaned, it looks as if pard has some sort of minor suit holding, which would actually make bidding RISKIER. Some values + misfit + our side bidding = 300/500 vs a hopeless game.

 

I'd say it's worth an appeal.

[Codo]

1. I agree with the TD Descission. You had an UI and it is possible that bidding was less problematic then after a quick pass. And as you red here, it was a very small minority who did bid 2 Spade on the second round.

 

2. However, as a TD I had told you to appeal against this descission.

 

2.1. It is far from clear to me why the hesitation should suggest bidding 2 Spade. I doubt that partner will hesitate with a balanced hands and some points. Why should he? So I agree with Whereagles that the hesitation makes 2 Spade less actractive, because it increases the chance that he has a 5/4 or 5/5 hand in the minors or a club one suiter.

 

2.2. If the bidding had proceed

pass (1 NT) pass (2 Club)

pass (2 Diamond) pass (pass)

 

you still had the opportunity to enter the bidding with 2 Spade, so maybe there was no damage.

 

So I had judged like the TD (in doubt against the offending side) but restored the table score in the AC.

[david_c]

I think the TD was right to disallow 2♠. I'm not so convinced that the auction would then stop in 2♦. However even if it's not passed out it may be difficult to get to spades after this start (if partner bids 3♣ over 2♦ the spades are buried). The ruling will depend on whether TDs are allowed to give weighted scores where you are.

 

What I dont understand is, that there was no alert at all,

did the 2C bid promise a 4 card mayor?

After all the guy could at most hold 1 spade and 5HCP, i.e.

weak with 4-4 in the mayor is out.

What was his plan over a 2S response by partner?

I would guess 3♦, if they have agreed that this is to play (not an unusual agreement).

[brianshark]

For completeness, 1NT was weak NT (I thought I specified that before but I see I forgot - sorry), responder held 4 hearts, a singleton spade, I think 6 diamonds to the QJ or something, and a scattered 8 count. I have no idea what he was planning to do. Maybe in their methods, 2♣ followed by 3♦ is a weak sign-off?

[whereagles]

Well, if 1NT was weak, then disallowing 2♠ is absolutely normal. Pard's hesitation could have been based on a 13-14 hcp hand intending to double, and that would make 2♠ a very safe bid.

[brianshark]

Dbl is explicitly 15+.