balancing seat?

[jillybean]

Dealer: East Vul: NS Scoring: IMP ♠ A85 ♥ J3 ♦ Q76 ♣ Q8632

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     Pass  Pass

 1♥    Pass  Pass  ? 

 

 

2♣ anyone?

[effervesce]

2♣, X and pass all seem reasonable. In passout seat, add 3 points to your hand. If you would bid then, then bid, otherwise pass. Thus, when partner responds to your balancing bid, he'll take that into account and subtract 3 when responding.

[jillybean]

2♣, X and pass all seem reasonable. In passout seat, add 3 points to your hand. If you would bid then, then bid, otherwise pass. Thus, when partner responds to your balancing bid, he'll take that into account and subtract 3 when responding.

ummm?

[655321]

I would double, but the hand is not lovely, and pass is very reasonable.

 

2♣ is not really an option here - if you decide to bid, double has to be better than 2♣.

[cherdano]

I double, and would not consider anything else.

[jdonn]

2♣ is certainly no option. Double seems reasonable. I don't hate pass I just think it's inferior.

[the hog]

Double. Would pass if the Ds and the S were swopped.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I would go with 2C.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

2♣,  X and pass all seem reasonable. In passout seat, add 3 points to your hand. If you would bid then, then bid, otherwise pass. Thus, when partner responds to your balancing bid, he'll take that into account and subtract 3 when responding.

ummm?

He said, that you are allowed to borrow a king

from partner, and if you overcall 2C, you would

like to borrow the king of clubs.

 

I have to check the laws to see, if I am allowed to borrow

a king of a specific suit, last time I overlooked such a

passage, but this means nothing.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[jillybean]

Another terrible bid, I did bid 2♣, partner with KJ,AQTx,Axx,xxxx jumped to 3nt.

2♣ didnt sit too well but neither did X with Axx and Qxx.

[rogerclee]

I double, and would not consider anything else.

That.

[effervesce]

Why all these votes for double? Aren't partner's chances for having 5 spades practically nil given no 1♠overcall?? I'll take the 8+ card fit over a 7 card fit anyday thankyou very much....

 

As for partner's bid to 3NT - if he/she followed the rule of subtracting 3 points when responding to a balancing bid, 2NT was the right bid (though 3NT is reasonable given the upgrading of the heart honors).

[Codo]

Another terrible bid, I did bid 2♣, partner with KJ,AQTx,Axx,xxxx jumped to 3nt.

2♣ didnt sit too well but neither did X with Axx and Qxx.

If pd thinks that his hand is worth a 3 NT bid after your balancing, he should have bid 1 NT at his first opportunity.

 

If he think that his hand is worth 14 HCPs, he should bid 2 NT now, quite easy.

 

 

Double and 2 Club both had resulted in 2 NT, so no difference here.

 

If I reopen with such a weak hand, I expect partner to have around 14 HCPs. This makes the chance nil that pd has 5 Spades and decreases the chances that he has even four. So, I have no clue why a double should work better then 2 Club with the given hand.

 

So I had chosen the same "terrible" bid you chose.

[P_Marlowe]

Another terrible bid, I did bid 2♣, partner with KJ,AQTx,Axx,xxxx jumped to 3nt.

2♣ didnt sit too well but neither did X with Axx and Qxx.

One may or may not bid 2C, but 3NT is ...

 

The first thing your partner should realize is,

that you did not open 1C and 3C, i.e. you will

have at most 11HCPs and depending on your

preemptive style you wont have 7 clubs, maybe

not even 6 clubs.

I.e. the partnership will have at most 25HCP

between them, (+ a 9 card fit in clubs).

Add to this the fact, that they will play at the 1

level if you pass, partner should realize, that

because of this you will try hard to find a bit.

 

The 2nd thing, you are allowed to borrow a king,

i.e. he should take away a king from his hand,

and make a move according to what is left,

and what is left is an invite.

 

Partner does not need to know about the 2nd point,

he does only need to listen to the auction carefully.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[jdonn]

Double. Would pass if the Ds and the S were swopped.

Ok I'll bite. I don't understand this reasoning at all :P

[cherdano]

Uh, what is up with the criticism 3N? This hand will make 3N+1 (or +2) opposite ♣AKxxxx and out, and opposite the actual hand I certainly want to be in 3N.

I guess 2N is the bid for hcp-counter-and-king-subtracters, but if you actually count tricks on the likely heart lead...

[ArtK78]

Another terrible bid, I did bid 2♣, partner with KJ,AQTx,Axx,xxxx jumped to 3nt.

2♣ didnt sit too well but neither did X with Axx and Qxx.

Partner should not bid 3NT. You balanced. I fully understand 2NT, but 3NT is just too much.

[han]

Uh, what is up with the criticism 3N? This hand will make 3N+1 (or +2) opposite ♣AKxxxx and out, and opposite the actual hand I certainly want to be in 3N.

I guess 2N is the bid for hcp-counter-and-king-subtracters, but if you actually count tricks on the likely heart lead...

Agree with this, 2C was at fault, not 3NT.

[jdonn]

Uh, what is up with the criticism 3N? This hand will make 3N+1 (or +2) opposite ♣AKxxxx and out, and opposite the actual hand I certainly want to be in 3N.

I guess 2N is the bid for hcp-counter-and-king-subtracters, but if you actually count tricks on the likely heart lead...

Agree with this, 2C was at fault, not 3NT.

Ditto, 3NT is obvious. If this hand really had a 2♣ bid then 3NT would probably be a good contract. Even here, when they probably lead a heart, it's fine.

[Apollo81]

It's between double and pass.

[P_Marlowe]

Uh, what is up with the criticism 3N? This hand will make 3N+1 (or +2) opposite ♣AKxxxx and out, and opposite the actual hand I certainly want to be in 3N.

I guess 2N is the bid for hcp-counter-and-king-subtracters, but if you actually count tricks on the likely heart lead...

Do you have any idea, in which section the post you

referred to was made, and in which section you did

post?

 

You are right, given your club support, 3NT rates to be a

good low HCP game, and most likely i would not bother

to invite.

 

But one thing is also certain: To bid consistently and

successfully in this situation, you should have at least

a slight idea, what the basic concepts are, and one of

those really stupid basic concepts is the concept that

partner is allowed to borrow a king.

 

I take it for granted, you know this concept, and may

or may not believe that it is a sensible concept, but

a more helpful comment would have helped the

B/I audience a whole lot more than the remark you

made.

 

I would use stronger words, but positing here is

posting in public, and I usuallly try to watch my

language.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[cherdano]

The basic concept here is that if you want to be in game opposite typical minimums for partner's action, then you bid game. This is much more fundamental than this subtracting king business (which I don't really agree with anyway).

 

B/I's should also learn how to look at their hand in context: Given that RHO opened AND that LHO passed, all our tenaces are working even better than before. Even opposite the actual hand, I want to be in game given the auction. (Even if they lead a diamond.) We would do a disservice to B/Is if we tell them to subtract a king rather than trying to evaluate their hand in context (which is also much more fun than learning rules, anyway).

 

I agree my comment above may have been a bid in bad taste, but I really think your hand evaluation of your original comment was way off.

[jillybean]

[hv=d=e&v=n&n=skjhaqt7da42c9754&w=s762hk9865djt9cak&e=sqt943h42dk853cjt&s=sa85hj3dq76cq8632]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     Pass  Pass

 1♥    Pass  Pass  2♣

 Pass  3NT   Pass  Pass

 Pass  

 

we made 3nt+2

[jdonn]

I don't understand, isn't game making easily on any lead?

 

And why did east pass the opening bid?

[neilkaz]

I don't understand, isn't game making easily on any lead?

 

And why did east pass the opening bid?

Agreed..even a ♦ lead isn't an issue.