Overcall vs takeout double

[hammberry]

IMPs, both vulnerable

 

Partner deals and passes, LHO bids 1D

 

I chose to double with AKJ987, A, 3, J8543

 

The bidding:

 

Pass -- (1D) -- Double -- (2H = weak)

Pass -- (3D) -- Double -- all pass

 

We were plus 200, losing 9 imps

(partner held: 643, KJ643, KQ84, 6)

 

I was criticized for not bidding spades at either of my chances.

Was partner at fault for passing the second double?

 

I'm anxious to learn--what general principles should guide me in

overcall vs. double situations?

What are the general advantages of overcalling rather than doubling?

[matmat]

most believe there are two situations in which you make a takeout double:

 

1) you have shortness in the suit bid by your opponent (0,1,2 and in some VERY VERY rare instances three smallish cards), close to opening values or more, and preferably 4ish cards in each of the other suits.

If one of the suits is substantially longer than the others, or if you are two suited it is better to make a suited overcall, or take a bid that will show multiple suits, such as a michaels cuebid or unusual 2nt

 

2) you have a very strong hand with a good suit. in this situation you double first and bid your suit at your second opportunity. Typically a six card suit with good texture and an about an ace or more over opening values.

 

On the auction you gave after your first double, p was imagining that you held something like 4=4=1=4.

Your second double was actually more takeout -- emphasizing the diamond shortness and showing extra values. given p has KQ84 of trump, pass seems reasonable.

[Mbodell]

This is one of those partnership agreement things. Some people play that double is fine with two places to play if you can show them cheaply. I.e., if partner bids ♥ here you can bid ♠ that will either show both ♠ and ♣ or, optionally, a super monster ♠ hand (which gets revealed when you correct partners ♣ bid back to ♠). Some people play a cue bid of ♦ here shows top + bottom suit (♠ and ♣). Some people (popular near me) play this shows ♠ + another (leaving which other ambiguous just like Michaels is ambiguous when the bidding goes (1M)-2M). Most popular is (1♦)-2♦ shows both majors 55+ and x shows both majors 44+ or occasionally 4 and a good 3 (or a super strong single suiter).

 

Note your hand is a pretty good candidate to bid 1♠ the first time and then, if you get the chance, to bid (and maybe rebid) the clubs. You have more ♠ than clubs and a better ♠ suit that would prefer that it be lead. The harder hand to show is if you reverse your black suits. Hardest of all would be if you had A J8543 3 AKJ987 where if you bid the clubs partner will likely never play you for 5 ♥.

[P_Marlowe]

IMPs, both vulnerable

 

Partner deals and passes, LHO bids 1D

 

I chose to double with AKJ987, A, 3, J8543

 

The bidding:

 

Pass -- (1D) -- Double -- (2H = weak)

Pass -- (3D) -- Double -- all pass

 

We were plus 200, losing 9 imps

(partner held: 643, KJ643, KQ84, 6)

 

I was criticized for not bidding spades at either of my chances.

Was partner at fault for passing the second double?

 

I'm anxious to learn--what general principles should guide me in

overcall vs. double situations?

What are the general advantages of overcalling rather than doubling?

A overcall shows a one suiter, a double shows a three suiter.

A t/o double usually shows more strength than an overcall.

 

Looking at your hand, you hold a two suiter, but given the strength

of spade suit, it is ok to sell the hand as one suiter.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[helene_t]

A t/o double asks partner to bid a suit. He will assume you have support for all unbid suits - a doubleton in an unbid minor is acceptable since p will prefer to bid a major, but you should avoid doubling with a doubleton in a major unless you are strong enough to bid again, thereby "overruling" partner's choice.

 

Your hand is about spades. It's not about the unbid suits in general. So overcall 1♠. It's true that a 1♠ overcall does not get clubs into the picture, but that is a secondary concern.

 

Suppose it goes

 

(1♦)-x-(4♦)-4♥

(x)

 

Partner is entitled to bid hearts because your double encourages him to do so.

 

It is a matter of agreement how strong a hand must be to allow for a t/o double with "any" shape. Most would say something like 17 points, some require more. Also, if you have 5-4 in the majors and a 3-card in the unbid minor, it is a matter of agreement whether you generally double or overcall.

 

But with a 2-card discrepancy in favor of one major over the other (6 vs 4 or 5 vs 3), always overcall unless you are very strong.