Wired or weird

[zasanya]

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=s10653hqj7632dc632&w=skj74hk84dk874ca5&e=sah5da1096532ckqj9&s=sq982ha109dqjc10874]399|300|Scoring: IMP

Board 1 of 8 Board Teammatch on BBO

P-1♦-p-1♠

p-1NT!-p-4NT!!

p-5♥-p-6NT

p-p-p[/hv]

 

 

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=s10653hqj7632dc632&w=skj74hk84dk874ca5&e=sah5da1096532ckqj9&s=sq982ha109dqjc10874]399|300|Scoring: IMP

Board 1 of 8 Board Teammatch on BBO

P-1♦-p-1♠

p-1NT!-p-4NT!!

p-5♥-p-6NT

p-p-p[/hv]

 

I was sitting South .The E/W pair who registered as pair never mentioned their system.They talked with each other occasionally in their language,though not during these auctions. A friend who was watching this match thought these bidding sequences suggested that E/W had some illegal means of conveying information."They must be wired"is what she said.

Do you agree?

[skjaeran]

No, I don't agree. If so they wouldn't have wrongsided 6NT on board 1.

 

Agree that both sequences are weird.

[EricK]

If you know something about the other hand you don't make stupid bids, you make sensible but "inspired" bids.

[TimG]

No, I don't agree. If so they wouldn't have wrongsided 6NT on board 1.

 

Agree that both sequences are weird.

The first one isn't wrong sided -- it makes from either side. If they had a wire, there's no need to play it from the "right" side when the ace is onside anyway. This auction is strange to say the least, but it sure seems like if they had a wire they could have gotten to the slam in a less bizarre way.

 

The second one doesn't seem particularly strange to me.

[Free]

I've seen Turkish players bid like this a lot (no offense). So it's just weird...

[fred]

"They must be wired" is what she said.

 

Do you agree?

Definitely not.

 

I think the North-South bidding on the second board is just as weird as the East-West bidding.

 

Would it be reasonable for me to conclude that you were wired?

 

Admittedly the first board was super-weird, but despite being anagrams, the leap from "weird" to "wired" is a big one.

 

What happened on the other 6 boards? (no I am not suggesting you post them)

 

Have you looked at any other boards these 2 have played as partners?

 

Maybe they play a weird system and did not alert. Maybe they are complete beginners. Maybe they bid weirdly on most hands but usually get the terrible results you would expect. Maybe this is the only really weird auction that they have ever had.

 

I actually think BBO would be better off if people did not make posts like this. How would you feel if saw your own bidding (which someone else considered weird) appear in a Forums thread with a "weird or wired" theme?

 

It was good that you did not name names, but naming hands is not much different IMO. Once you have the hands it is not hard to find the names. Your post therefore is arguably a public accusation of cheating even though no names were mentioned.

 

Please be more careful in the future.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[glen]

I was sitting South. ... "They must be wired"is what she said.  Do you agree?

If I was sitting South and dummy came down for the first board you gave, I would have asked "what was 1♠ please". As it is, I don't think this discussion is useful.

 

Edit: This is wrong as noted by the next post - I misread the auction.

[jtfanclub]

I was sitting South. ... "They must be wired"is what she said.  Do you agree?

If I was sitting South and dummy came down for the first board you gave, I would have asked "what was 1♠ please". As it is, I don't think this discussion is useful.

I am confused.

 

East opened one diamond. West has a 14 count with 4 spades.

 

Why would you expect any call but one spade?

 

The only weirdity is 1NT, and that's probably systemic.

[the hog]

No, I don't agree. If so they wouldn't have wrongsided 6NT on board 1.

 

Agree that both sequences are weird.

The first one isn't wrong sided -- it makes from either side. If they had a wire, there's no need to play it from the "right" side when the ace is onside anyway. This auction is strange to say the least, but it sure seems like if they had a wire they could have gotten to the slam in a less bizarre way.

 

The second one doesn't seem particularly strange to me.

Only if you know the location of the Ace. If you only know your partner's hand then the contract is wrongsided.

I would suggest weird, not wired.

[zasanya]

"They must be wired" is what she said.

 

Do you agree?

Definitely not.

 

I think the North-South bidding on the second board is just as weird as the East-West bidding.

 

Would it be reasonable for me to conclude that you were wired?

 

 

Have you looked at any other boards these 2 have played as partners?

 

Maybe they play a weird system and did not alert. Maybe they are complete beginners.

 

Please be more careful in the future.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

I apologize. I will not do it again. I did not realize that somebody may be able to identify the players concerned.

The E/W pair may be beginners although they called themselves something else because it seems to me that the 4♠ hand can be made after the lead of ♥ K but declarer misplayed and gave me a chance to break the contract. I misdefended and allowed the contract to make.May be that was the reason for this post ;)

I would be most grateful if you elaborate on why you consider N/S bidding weird.We play Roman Jumps so my P could not have bid 2♥ as others might.My double shows good support for ♥.His pass suggested Minimum hand.Their ♠ fit suggested ♠ shortage in Partners hand and strongly indicated 6 carder ♥ as with 5/4 he could have used RJ at this vul.Hence my 4♥.

[fred]

I would be most grateful if you elaborate on why you consider N/S bidding weird.We play Roman Jumps so my P could not have bid 2♥ as others might.My double shows good support for ♥.His pass suggested Minimum hand.Their ♠ fit suggested ♠ shortage in Partners hand and strongly indicated 6 carder ♥ as with 5/4 he could have used RJ at this vul.Hence my 4♥.

Since you asked so nicely... :P

 

Most of the bids you and your partner made seemed weird to me largely because your original post did not contain an explanation of what your bids meant.

 

- 1H to me is mildly weird because to me South has a textbook weak jump overcall. No doubt there are plenty of strong players who would prefer 1H even if 2H is not artificial. Probably some would prefer 3H as well. Now that I know you could not bid 2H even if you wanted to, I no longer think 2H is in any way weird. That being said, I believe that the vast majority of the world's bridge players would consider Roman Jump Overcalls to be a "weird convention".

 

- DBL to me seemed extremely weird. It seems much less weird now that I know that you and your partner use this DBL to show heart support. However, that in itself definitely falls into the category of a "weird convention" to me (because this is the first time I have heard of this convention and intuitively this does not seem like a smart convention to me). Not knowing more about your agreements it is impossible for me to pass judgment, but even if DBL showed "good support for hearts" why not 2D or 2NT (or 4H?) with your actual hand? I would have guessed that the nature of the DBL would be to suggest a more defensive hand with good heart support.

 

- Pass did not really seem weird when I first saw your post, but now that I know that DBL promised heart support, Pass does seem weird. Why not 3H to suggest a offense-oriented minimum hand? Again I do not know enough about your system to pass judgment, but I would have thought that pass would suggest not only a minimum hand but also a lack of interest in declaring.

 

- 4H was not weird to me at all, but maybe 4D would have been a better choice to establish a force? Not sure if you had such an agreement or, if you did, whether it would make sense with the North hand (mostly because I still do not understand the exact nature of the DBL versus cuebid).

 

- I think I would have DBLed 4S at the end with the North hand, but this is really a judgment call based at least partly on issues related to style.

 

Meanwhile the only bid in your opponents' auction I found weird was 1NT (versus negative DBL). That being said, there are various explanations that make this bid much less weird (West being a hand-hog or a weak player for example).

 

I actually thought that the bid you considered weird enough to merit an explanation point, 2S, was an excellent bid.

 

So there you have it. To summarize, a lot of the weirdness I perceived in your auction was due to the fact that I do not understand some aspects of your system. Some of it was a function of difference in judgment or style.

 

Please note that I think the leap from "weird" to "bad" is just as wide as the leap from "weird" to "wired". I am certainly not suggesting that you bid poorly so I hope you won't take any offense from this post.

 

The main point of all of this is that it is impossible to draw conclusions about either the quality or the honesty of the opponents' bidding unless you know a lot about the opponents themselves as well as the system and style that they use.

 

Hope that helps. I did ask a bunch of questions in the above, but they were mostly to make you think about your own auction and to let you know what I was thinking. I would just as soon avoid any further discussion on this hand so please do not feel obligated to provide answers to these questions :)

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[zasanya]

Thank you Sir.Chapter closed. :)