Free Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 You hold:[hv=d=e&v=b&s=sat987hdkqj9765c5]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv] RHO opens 4♥ in 1st seat. What's your plan? THIS IS MATCHPOINTS!!! B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 5D, maybe I'll buy it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 4N. If 1xA, 5D. If 2-3A, 6D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted April 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 4N. If 1xA, 5D. If 2-3A, 6D. I don't think 4NT is Blacky... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 5♦. It may be matchpoints, but it is still bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 5♦. It may be matchpoints, but it is still bridge. me too Do you get more matchpoints for making 5D or going off in 4S? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 4♠, running if doubled (of course). If you aren't doubled then how can this not be right at matchpoints? 5♦. It may be matchpoints, but it is still bridge. I disagree that matchpoints is bridge. 4N. If 1xA, 5D. If 2-3A, 6D.LOL I needed this post to wake me up in the morning, ty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 I'd bid 4NT followed by 5♦ over partner's likely 5♣. This is "two places to play" for me, not blackwood. Admittedly there might be times when we need to play exactly 4♠, or when partner has something like xxx/x in our suits and we play in the "wrong" fit. But this at least gives us the chance to get to spades when we have a big fit there without unilaterally deciding we are playing in spades (I suspect there will be a lot of times when 5♦ is better than 4♠ and LHO doesn't double, or when 4♠ is higher-scoring than 5♦ and LHO does double). Showing the two-suiter also gives us a chance at slam -- say partner holds KQxx xxx Ax xxxx, I think he can bid slam over 4NT...5♦ but will he bid slam over a direct 5♦? And if he would, wouldn't he also with xxxx xxx Ax KQxx (oops)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Showing the two-suiter also gives us a chance at slam -- say partner holds KQxx xxx Ax xxxx, I think he can bid slam over 4NT...5♦ but will he bid slam over a direct 5♦? And if he would, wouldn't he also with xxxx xxx Ax KQxx (oops)? With xxxx xxx Ax KQxx, won't he bid 6♣ over your 4NT, which is usually the minors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 For me, 4N would be minors, in fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 For me, 4N would be minors, in fact. Same here. Why would you sacrifice a level of bidding just to show two suits? 4♠ for me. LHO will either be itching to double this or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 (edited) I don't mind the idea that bidding 4NT (ostensibly minors) followed by converting clubs to diamonds should mean something. However, partner has to be able to bid on the assumption that you have both minors, so you should be prepared to hear a jump to 6♣. I think that the sequence should show a slam try with just diamonds - if he bids 6♣ over that, you'll probably be happy enough to play in 6♦. This hand wouldn't qualify, because slam requires specifically a spade fit rather than just general values. Edited April 12, 2008 by gnasher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Shouldn't any plan involve what to do after we take action and 3rd hand raises to 5♥? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 I'd bid 4NT followed by 5♦ over partner's likely 5♣. This is "two places to play" for me, not blackwood. There was a hand you played against me the other day where I thought you would have seen showing two suits at once with a two card discrepancy is very risky. What if partner has xx and x? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Yes, 5♦ and 5♠ over LHO's 5♥. What if p doubles 5♥? Is this 100% penanlty or am I supposed to run with a hand like this one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Yes, 5♦ and 5♠ over LHO's 5♥. What if p doubles 5♥? Is this 100% penanlty or am I supposed to run with a hand like this one? I think that the main message of such doubles should be not "I think this is going off", but "I think we were making". If we weren't making our game, I'm less concerned about extracting a penalty. So, I'd bid 5♠ even if he doubles 5♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Yes, 5♦ and 5♠ over LHO's 5♥. What if p doubles 5♥? Is this 100% penanlty or am I supposed to run with a hand like this one? I think that the main message of such doubles should be not "I think this is going off", but "I think we were making". If we weren't making our game, I'm less concerned about extracting a penalty. So, I'd bid 5♠ even if he doubles 5♥. Yeah, I think this is better than 4NT. I'm not really confident about 5♠ over 5♥ (doubled or not), but I'm much happier than I would be after ...4N-5♥-DBL/P-P to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 5D 4S is interesting, but maybe oppo is just itching to pass and take it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 4♠ all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Certainly I agree that there is some risk inherent in showing a two-suiter when you have a two-card discrepancy between the suits. But surely this is better than just unilaterally bidding your shorter suit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Certainly I agree that there is some risk inherent in showing a two-suiter when you have a two-card discrepancy between the suits. But surely this is better than just unilaterally bidding your shorter suit? No. Not when - The shorter suit can be played in game on a lower level. Meaning both of, a lower level than the other suit can be played in game, and a lower level than you will be playing the shorter suit if you play in it.- The times that bidding the shorter suit was most wrong (when we get doubled) we can escape to the longer suit.- The 'inherent risk' of showing two suits when there is a two card discrepancy also includes the inherent risk of not getting to show EITHER suit if LHO raises his partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 My experience has been that this idea of bidding a suit and then running if they double you works a lot less often than you seem to think. In fact I'd say almost never. It seems quite frequent that opponents don't double and you just go down in the wrong contract, or that they double and you run, and partner even takes you back to the first doubled suit with 3-1 in your suits, or that they double and you run and the fact that you showed the first suit makes it easier for them to double the second. What do you think 4♥-4NT-5♥-P-P-5♠ shows? How about "spades and a minor"? How good do you think partner's chances of guessing your minor will be given your 7-1 length discrepancy? And what if the auction goes 4♥-4♠-5♥ and partner decides to raise on honor doubleton (after all don't you usually have a six-card suit for this bidding)? Are you running to 6♦ when opponents double after partner raised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 5♦ for me. I once held a similar hand (KJxxx x KQJ9xx x) and decided to overcall the 4♥ opening with 4♠ and see what happened. LHO thought for a long time, and doubled reluctantly. OK, perhaps the double was based on points and not on trump tricks, so I didn't run.... -1700 later, I learnt my lesson. LHO wasn't coffeehousing, he genuinely didn't think double was clear (something like Axxx x Axxx Qxxx with no pips) - in fact another table scored -600 the hard way when 4♠ was not doubled. Diamonds made 9 tricks that time, partner was 1-2 in spades and diamonds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 My experience has been that this idea of bidding a suit and then running if they double you works a lot less often than you seem to think. In fact I'd say almost never.Almost never because it's almost never right. Except, you know, when you have a good 7 card suit to run to. It seems quite frequent that opponents don't double and you just go down in the wrong contractThat doesn't seem frequent at all. Sure it could be the wrong contract, but if it is I'm almost sure they will double me. After all LHO probably has real strength, and why should he ever think I'm running? You did just say running never works, so why would you fear doubling me into a better contract? or that they double and you run, and partner even takes you back to the first doubled suit with 3-1 in your suits, or that they double and you run and the fact that you showed the first suit makes it easier for them to double the second.I guess if either of those two things happen I'll be in the exact same boat as you. Except, you know, with that chance of having played 4♠ thrown in. What do you think 4♥-4NT-5♥-P-P-5♠ shows? How about "spades and a minor"?Well I really think 4NT shows minors, but I was rolling with your agreement. So in that case sure, spades and a minor. Of course now, since partner won't want to go to 6, you will play in the major when he has EQUAL LENGTH in your suits! And still, a level too high! And what if the auction goes 4♥-4♠-5♥ and partner decides to raise on honor doubletonahem.... WHAT?!?!?! That would give me my easiest decision of the hand. Go to the bar and make partner play it for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 5♦ for me. I once held a similar hand (KJxxx x KQJ9xx x) and decided to overcall the 4♥ opening with 4♠ and see what happened. LHO thought for a long time, and doubled reluctantly. OK, perhaps the double was based on points and not on trump tricks, so I didn't run.... -1700 later, I learnt my lesson. LHO wasn't coffeehousing, he genuinely didn't think double was clear (something like Axxx x Axxx Qxxx with no pips) - in fact another table scored -600 the hard way when 4♠ was not doubled. Diamonds made 9 tricks that time, partner was 1-2 in spades and diamonds. Good point, guess you should have run. Oh yeah.... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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