han Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 AQ10xAJxxxxAJx JxxQxAxxxKQ10x How would you bid these two? Again south is the dealer at IMPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 1d - 1h1n - 2d*3c - 3n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 We'd start:1♣ - 1♦1NT - 2♦2♥ - 2♠ Opener having this far showed a balanced 11-14 with Hx in hearts, responder a GF with 44+ in the majors. IF opener then continue 2NT (showing 3244), we might bid:2NT - 3♣3♦ - 3♥4♥ Where opener expresses doubt about his diamond holding being sufficient for 3NT. However, opener might chose to bid 3NT at an earlier opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 1♣ 1♥1NT 2♦ (gf)2NT 3♠4♥ P 5-6 bids 3♠ over 1NT, and if north was 4531 with just game values he would bid 3NT over 2NT, so south knows not to bid 3NT having already shown the hand type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Hi, 1D (1) - 1H (2)1NT (3) - 2C (4)2NT (5) - 3NT (6) (1) SAYC style(2) SAYC style(3) SAYC style, i.e. 12-14, denies 4 spades(4) NMF(5) denies 3 hearts(6) what else? With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 avoiding 3nt seems wow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Double dummy I'd bid 3NT. Let LHO find a 3-card diamond lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Double dummy I'd bid 3NT. Let LHO find a 3-card diamond lead. If I or my partner is on your left, you'll face a diamond lead from 3, 4 or 5 - maybe also from a doubleton. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Double dummy I'd bid 3NT. Let LHO find a 3-card diamond lead. If I or my partner is on your left, you'll face a diamond lead from 3, 4 or 5 - maybe also from a doubleton. B) I'd prefer you to my left, at the other table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted April 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 1♣ 1♥1NT 2♦ (gf)2NT 3♠4♥ P 5-6 bids 3♠ over 1NT, and if north was 4531 with just game values he would bid 3NT over 2NT, so south knows not to bid 3NT having already shown the hand type. Hmm, I thought 1C-1H-1NT-3S was a self splinter, and that with 5-6 you'd bid 2S and then 3S. What does that auction mean for you? Our (transfer-walsh) auction was similar to: 1C - 1H1NT - 2S2NT - 3C3H - 3S3NT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 I play 2♠ there is 4-4 invitational, which I first heard of from the Italians. Frankly I'm not sure the way you suggest wouldn't be better for me, since I rarely bypass spades unless 4333. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 1D - 1H1NT - 2D*2H* - 2S2NT - 3C3H - 4H 2D = shows 5 hearts, forces 2H2S = 4-5 at least invitational2NT = minimum3C = pattern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 I still don't get the fear of 3NT. Double dummy, this seems to only be in jeopardy if RHO has 5+ diamonds and the spade King. If RHO must have 5+ diamonds, then LHO must have three or fewer diamonds. That seems to make the odds beter than 10:8 in our favor. Or, the 3NT game is better than a 56% likely makers. A heart game, in contrast, when the spade hook fails, turns on losing only two hearts. If hearts split 4-2, a diamond lead causes similar problems. You win the diamond and eventually lose a heart before pulling the last trump. Another diamond reduces you to equal trumps. Even if you can pull their trumps, the losing spade hook allows them to cash diamonds, and RHO will have the long diamonds to cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 I still don't get the fear of 3NT. I admire your ability to judge in the auction whether partner has the ten of spades or the ten of hearts. B) Is that in the next book? Actually the only auction your comment seems a valid criticism of is Frances's, since there north knows the heart situation below game and has a chance to judge things further. Probably on that auction north should bid 3♠ or 3NT over 3♥, unless those are slam tries for hearts (which seems unlikely in what is almost surely a 5-2 fit). You are getting a diamond lead a lot more than half the time if you open 1♣ and investigate your major suit fits, even from shorter holdings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 If you don't skip a 4 card spade suit over 1♥ you are much better placed. 2♠ as a natural reverse is still useful IMO in the above context. In this case, responder can pattern out with 3♣ over 2N. Avoiding 3N isn't so wow in this case. You'll find 4♥ fairly easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Here was our auction:1C 1D* (hearts)1H 2S (2-3 hearts, many hand types, but most often weak NT; natural reverse, forcing)2N 3C3H 3S3N Comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Here was our auction:1C 1D* (hearts)1H 2S (2-3 hearts, many hand types, but most often weak NT; natural reverse, forcing)2N 3C3H 3S3N Comments? We play this sequence differently - 1♥ promise 3, then 2♠ is inv+ splinter. I dont't think 3NT on A empty fourth is the correct bid vs a known singleton - I prefer 4♥. Might of course be a little subjective, knowing both hands. But you've more or less guaranteed a diamond lead on the auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Here was our auction:1C 1D* (hearts)1H 2S (2-3 hearts, many hand types, but most often weak NT; natural reverse, forcing)2N 3C3H 3S3N Comments? A couple questions. Does 2NT guarantee a weak notrump? And does it deny three hearts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 I still don't get the fear of 3NT. I admire your ability to judge in the auction whether partner has the ten of spades or the ten of hearts. :) Is that in the next book? Actually the only auction your comment seems a valid criticism of is Frances's, since there north knows the heart situation below game and has a chance to judge things further. Probably on that auction north should bid 3♠ or 3NT over 3♥, unless those are slam tries for hearts (which seems unlikely in what is almost surely a 5-2 fit). You are getting a diamond lead a lot more than half the time if you open 1♣ and investigate your major suit fits, even from shorter holdings. Well, actually my auction would be: 1♦-1♥1NT-2♦3♣-3NT In that event, I'm less concerned about a diamond opening. Whereas I might not be able to predict stray tens, I would also be unable to predict missing cards in diamonds. This seems to simple. We have no major fits and no minor fits, with enough for game, and good cards in every suit. With a buter knife, I bid 3NT in this situation. It seems to work OK.-----If I were playing an unbalanced diamond approach, then 1♣-1♥-1NT-2♦-2NT-3NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Here was our auction:1C 1D* (hearts)1H 2S (2-3 hearts, many hand types, but most often weak NT; natural reverse, forcing)2N 3C3H 3S3N Comments? A couple questions. Does 2NT guarantee a weak notrump? And does it deny three hearts? Yes. Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Yes. Yes. In that case I agree with the auction. 2NT says "I have a weak notrump (nothing about diamond stoppers)", then 3♥ says "I have a problem for notrump, so hearts might be right on my doubleton" then 3NT says "I have already suggested against notrump, but diamonds are stopped if you're interested." So it's east's judgment to make, and with lousy hearts and extra strength I have no problem with the final pass. It's all just one of those things about how the auction times out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 We don't actually play strong no trumps in first seat. But adapting our methods to a Standard American approach ... Over 1NT rebids we play transfers and checkback 2♣. I think we would have a decent chance of avoiding 3NT. 1♦ 1♥ 1NT 2♥* 4=5 in majors 2♠* 3♦** * automatic even with heart fit ** Diamond shortage 3♥ 4♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 In my old days I would skillfully manage to stay out of 3NT and play something like 4 or 5♣. Nowadays I'll just bid 3NT. This is where the world starts and ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 I still don't get the fear of 3NT. The question was how you would bid the hands, not what you think the best contract is looking at both hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 I still don't get the fear of 3NT. The question was how you would bid the hands, not what you think the best contract is looking at both hands. I know. So, why would either hand fear 3NT in the auction? I agree that there is a greater problem for Responder after a 1♣ opening. But, so what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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