TylerE Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Had the following (start of) an auction in an ACBL tourney tonight. 1♥ - (p) - 1♠ - (3♣ Weak)X - (p) - 4♣ What should 4♣ show here, and what lengths does it show in other suit(s)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 I'd play it as a COG. likely 5242 or 5233 without club stopper. Could of course show a strong hand but it doesn't have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Enough for game with no clear bid. So probably only five spades or six bad ones and only two hearts and no club stopper and no diamond length (say not 5=5). It could also be a very strong hand interested in slam outside these parameters - most like would be self-sufficient spades or primary heart support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Thanks for clarifying my post again Wayne. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 What is a COG please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 choice of games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 choice of games. Thanks for clarifying your post Han :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Will the choice always be between hearts and spades? What about these shapes: 5152 (choice between spades and diamonds)4252/4261 (choice between hearts and diamonds) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 4♣ is some sort of support bid. Pard should now bid 4♦ regardless and wait for responder to clear up the issue :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 choice of games. Thanks for clarifying your post Han :P Quit being a post hog Wayne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted March 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Thanks for the replies guys. The full auction was: 1[HE} - (p) - 1♠ - (3♣)X - (p) - 4♣ - (p)4♠ - (p) - 5♥ - (p)6♥ Partner tabled something like ♠Axxx ♥ Kxxxx ♦ KQ ♣ Kx oppisite my ♠KJx ♥ QJTxx ♦ Jxxx ♣A Obviously 6♥ was not a success. Partner insisted that 4♣ here shows heart support. My counter-argument was that there was an easy way to show heart support here: Bid 4♥ over the double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Thanks for the replies guys. The full auction was: 1[HE} - (p) - 1♠ - (3♣)X - (p) - 4♣ - (p)4♠ - (p) - 5♥ - (p)6♥ Partner tabled something like ♠Axxx ♥ Kxxxx ♦ KQ ♣ Kx oppisite my ♠KJx ♥ QJTxx ♦ Jxxx ♣A Obviously 6♥ was not a success. Partner insisted that 4♣ here shows heart support. My counter-argument was that there was an easy way to show heart support here: Bid 4♥ over the double. I would never bid 4♥ this hand is worth a slam try in my books, bad luck. Whether you should make a move over 4♥ is questionable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Partner should have supported hearts immediately. But I don't understand why you raised 5♥ to 6. Did you see 5♥ as asking for a club control? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted March 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Really, the hand is handled much better if responder supresses the anemic spade suit and just makes a GF heart raise. 1♥ - 2NT (no 3/4 ♣ bid here... preempting into a GF auction at R/W??)4♥ - ap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick_s Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 I think Wayne pretty much nailed the answer to your original question. Just out of curiosity: what was your double? Support? Whether it was or not, I think it should show a non-minimum and may have contributed to your getting too high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bid_em_up Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Obviously 6♥ was not a success. Partner insisted that 4♣ here shows heart support. My counter-argument was that there was an easy way to show heart support here: Bid 4♥ over the double. Your counter argument should be, "Why bid 1S instead of making a g/f heart raise?", imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Partner insisted that 4♣ here shows heart support. My counter-argument was that there was an easy way to show heart support here: Bid 4♥ over the double. See? That's why you should play the "WTF is going on?" 4♦ convention, in which a 4♦ bidmerely says: "Pard, I have no clue what's going on. Please tell me what's the fit!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Agree that partner should have made a forcing raise instead of bidding spades, and that you don't have nearly enough to double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmunte1 Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 1. Your double over 3♣ is very bad. Playing support doubles over 2 in partner's major should definitely show extras2. 1♠ by partner was also bad, but that's not the main reason you reached this bad slam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFA Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 4♣ should be choice of games without a clear direction.5242 for instance. Not 5 diamonds, since we can just bid 4♦ forcing with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 This auction is an advertisement for Jacoby 2NT. Seeking the 4=4 spade fit is for text-books it just doesn't work in practice whenever there is competition. Here responder thought he had extras which just resulted in a nebulous cue-bid and noone knowing where they were going until they got to 5♥ and then we were too high to exchange useful information. On the other hand after 1♥ 2NT we will never get to the wrong spot assuming similar interference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Seeking the 4=4 spade fit is for text-books... Do the texbooks recommend the 4-4 fit over the 5-5 fit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Seeking the 4=4 spade fit is for text-books... Do the texbooks recommend the 4-4 fit over the 5-5 fit? hmmm No I overlooked that. That diminishes any possible advantage from 1♠ to vanishingly close to zero. Last night in a 12 board team match I got my hands on the dummy 9 times - the only advantage therefore is to be declarer. If you try this I hope partner raises with three and keeps correcting for ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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