Missed game / Rev Drury

[nick_s]

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=sxxhakxdjxxc10xxxx&s=sakxhj97xxxdaxxcx]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

Opponents silent:

pass - 1♥ - 2♥ - pass

 

We're playing 2/1. 1NT is semi-forcing by a passed hand and 2C is rev Drury.

 

Not sure who is really at fault here - maybe both of us.

 

In the port-mortem I (South) claimed that pard should have gone through reverse Drury (2♣-2♦-2♥) to show a good raise to 2♥. Since he hadn't done this, I didn't make a game try. Pard claimed that using Drury alway promised a limit raise and he didn't have one.

 

In retrospect, I've no idea where I got this idea about Drury from, and I've since apologized. This still bugs me though, and it still seems like a good idea (to me anyway). Is this a common treatment or should using Drury always promise a limit raise?

[ArcLight]

Nick,

Any system or convention can have failures along the edges. Some lucky distribution can allow a 23 HCP slam to make , while a different combination of 30 HCP can result in a game failing.

 

I don't consider this hand woith a Drury response.

 

Move the Spade Ace to Clubs. Is that a game you want to be in?

 

What if hearts split 3-1 (with the Q not stiff). How about 4-1?

 

This is not a good game to be in, it just worked out.

 

 

You can make a grand slam with 5 HCP, doesnt mean you wnat to look for it.

[blackshoe]

The only Drury treatment I've seen in which a Drury bid does not show at least invitational values was shown to me by an expert friend of mine. He didn't have a name for it, so I call it Reverse Two-way Reverse Drury. B)

 

It works like this:

 

2♣ shows 4 card support and 6-12 HCP

.....2♦ shows game interest

............2M shows 6-9 HCP

.....2M denies game interest

2♦ shows 3 card support and 10-12

.....2M denies game interest

.....2NT shows game interest

2M shows 3 card support and 6-9 HCP

 

Even using this method 2♥ is the right bid. And so is pass by opener. I agree with Arclight - no one is "at fault" here, this is just one of those hands on the edges of the system.

[dicklont]

North's raise is totally ok.

You have Drury for a limit hand, 1NT and then 2♥ for a weak raise, and a direct raise for this.

 

Upgrade this to 16 points and South could make a game try, but it would have been optimistic.

[ArtK78]

The point of the Drury convention was to avoid having to make a jump raise to the 3 level with invitational values as a passed hand only to find that partner opened light in 3rd seat and that you are down one at the 3 level.

 

If you have less than invitational values, such as the example hand in this thread, you don't bid Drury. You make a single raise just like you would if you were not a passed hand.

 

By the way, I disagree with the idea that you should bid 1NT followed by 2♥ with a "weak" hand. As a passed hand, your 1NT response may be passed. So, unless you are prepared to have partner pass your 1NT response, you should raise to 2♥ with any hand worth a raise and you should not differentiate between a "good" single raise and a "weak" single raise.

 

As for the idea of missing this game, a couple of comments. These two hands fit almost perfectly - there are virtually no wasted values (the ♦J is likely wasted, and possibly the ♥J). AKx of spades opposite xx of spades in the short trump hand is perfect. You have a nine card heart fit. To make 10 tricks you need to be able to win 6 heart tricks and ruff a spade loser. This requires either 2-2 trump or a singleton ♥Q. Not a terrible game by any means, but very difficult to diagnose.

[Cascade]

South has the extras. Whether it is enough to make a game try I am not sure.

 

Basically whenever you bid a bad long suit and it gets raised your hand improves.

[Apollo81]

Dont sweat missing this one, most people would.

[nick_s]

Well, let's ignore the hand above, and whether it's worth an invite or not.

 

What is the difference between:

pass - 1♥ - 2♥

and

pass - 1♥ - 2♣ - 2♦ - 2♥

and

pass - 1♥ - 2♣ - 2♦ - 3♥?

 

I guess I should have just asked the question I really wanted answered. :)

[mikeh]

with one (expert) partner, we play drury as including a maximum constructive raise, if we hold 4 trump, as well as a limit raise... we don't play 1N as forcing by a passed hand, so single raises have weaker upper and lower limits than by an unpassed hand.

 

1M 2♣ is 4+ support, good constructive or better, 2♦ now asks.. with 2♥ saying good constructive and all others, limit

 

2♦ is 3 card support, limit or better... we don't stretch the 2♦ call to include any constructive ranges.

 

As for the given hand... it is not a crime to miss games like this: a perfect mesh and, even so, game is not exactly laydown. Yes, it's a game you'd like to be in, but if you always bid these hands to game, you will also bid way too many bad games.

[EricK]

This post is nothing to do with Drury, but I (many years ago) read a bridge column which quoted an apparent theory of "Meckwell" that if partner makes a free raise of 1M to 2M then you should bid game if you have a six card suit.

 

I suppose this sort of hand shows the plus side of that!

[jdonn]

This post is nothing to do with Drury, but I (many years ago) read a bridge column which quoted an apparent theory of "Meckwell" that if partner makes a free raise of 1M to 2M then you should bid game if you have a six card suit.

 

I suppose this sort of hand shows the plus side of that!

Actually Meckstroth is on record in Win the Bermuda Bowl With Me as NOT believing that to be the case. If I remember correctly he said "this policy only seems to work consistently for you if you are from Pakistan." Yuk yuk.

[rogerclee]

This post is nothing to do with Drury, but I (many years ago) read a bridge column which quoted an apparent theory of "Meckwell" that if partner makes a free raise of 1M to 2M then you should bid game if you have a six card suit.

I adopted this (as jdonn points out, Zia's) strategy briefly. It doesn't work for me very well :lol:.

 

I agree with the auction. Game is only a little better than 50%. I wouldn't sweat this one.

 

If you really wanted to blame someone, I would blame South, but his "extras" are pretty minimal.

[jdonn]

fwiw I think game is better than people are giving it credit for. They might lead the diamond king, and there are chances to set up the long club too. I still don't think it was a high crime to miss this game though.

[Trinidad]

To start with, I agree with most other posters that you will loose something around the edges. Most people would miss game here.

 

My comment is on the range for Drury. It seems odd to play a 2 point range for a bid that still has room to clarify whether it is a minimum or a maximum, without passing the bid that it is forcing to (2♥). The range for Drury can (and should) be much wider. Therefore, many players play Drury as a 'good raise' (say 8-12, depending on how aggresive you open in first seat) and an immediate 2♥ as a 'bad raise' (4-7).

 

The mechanism then is that opener will rebid:

 

o 2♥ with any hand that cannot envision game (submin to normal dead minimums)

 

o beyond 2♥ (a descriptive GT) with a very good opener

 

o 2♦ with all 'reasonable' hands (the most common hand type).

 

After the 2♦ bid, a minimum Drury (8-10) will bid 2♥ (leaving room for opener to make a game try), while a maximum Drury (11-12) will make a game try on his own.

 

In my experience, this method works very well in the context of a system with aggressive openers in all seats where opening a four card major in 3rd seat is very rare (only on very pure hands like ♠xxx ♥KQJx ♦Axxxx ♣x).

 

Rik