han Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Justin, you missed out on a great vugraph show tonight, I collected some commentator quotes: Board 18:That's quite a vulnerable 3C bid over 2C by Justin Lall, ah callous youth. (yes, callous) Board 21:Landen's double at IMPs seems to aggressive. Maybe he was influenced from prior bidding he's seen from Justin. Board 23: Basically he [Landen] played declarer [Justin] for KJ10xxx and out (or maybe seven spades and out).That seems wrong.But again may have been influenced by prior actions. Board 25: this is a very unfortunate spot and a great lead[Justin led the unbid suit with K972] Board 26, after Justin opens a 14-16 1NT on xx 109 AKQ A1098xx this hand illustrates why a lot of top pairs have given up NT defenses that start with an artifical double. People "upgrade" thirteen counts frequently. Board 27: So this will be six imps unless he makes a really strange play of the queen of spades now. Board 28: this made at the other table. seems like it's pretty easy to beat, but .... not sure where he found the 4♠ call but he bought a fantastic hand Board 31: Kevin has a poker face, but when Landen played the diamond, he looked about as unhappy as I've ever seen him :). Now studying to see if there's any chance. Board 32: WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossoneri Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 The board 21 one cracked me up when I saw it. But nonetheless, wd to Justin :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassedOut Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Exciting comeback and another great win! A lot of fun to watch -- thanks for the opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 I am surprized you left this one out... on board 21... JanM: Justin just took the 4!d card out of his bidding box and looked at the back to see what the score would be if they made it :) (good observation Jan, that stuff is great) another commentor... hehe... a psychological ploy perhaps as he should already know it Yup.. you betcha.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Yeah that was fun, always fun actually to hear what's happening at the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Isn't this using a "mechanical aid" and thus against the laws ....seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Isn't this using a "mechanical aid" and thus against the laws ....seriously. The use of vugraph devices in the context of that rule has already been discussed on the forums recently, Mr. Buzzkill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dodgy Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 jdonn, i think hog's comments was referring to JanM: Justin just took the 4!d card out of his bidding box and looked at the back to see what the score would be if they made it btw the quote han attributed to board 18 was actually board 20, and ditto 28 should be 29? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 jdonn, i think hog's comments was referring to JanM: Justin just took the 4!d card out of his bidding box and looked at the back to see what the score would be if they made it btw the quote han attributed to board 18 was actually board 20, and ditto 28 should be 29? Yes I was actually. Sorry if you took offence, it was a serious question. Good win btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 The 3C bid: yes that was an LOL, but I had my reasons because of my opps. Needless to say I crapped my pants when it went X all pass, I caught a lucky dummy for sure (but was unlucky that it could go X all pass). The X of 4D: I don't really blame the guy. Interesting to note if my RHO bashed 4S I was going to bid 5D. The play in 4S: This was very interesting, I discussed this hands with a lot of (top) players. I really feel that LHO will always "panic" and pop ace and play a minor when I take this line. I really like my line for this reason even though it is not a good technical line. I agree with you that an active style (and this set I was certainly out there) has the benefit of being harder to read. The diamond lead: 3D was natural (I asked) so I don't think it was an unbid suit. The 1N opener: Yes totally love opening 1N with 13 and 2-2 in the majors, it steals from the opps a lot. Before people yell at me we pre-alert "our NT bids can all be upgraded very liberally and almost never downgraded." I agree with playing a weak NT defense vs 14-16 NT since it is often 13 and you need to be able to find games. The 4S bid: lol? I had AKQ9xxx x x KT9x and found a 4S bid, brilliant. If I catch the QJ of clubs I am probably cold (which was actually what I caught, but also with a stiff spade and 4-1 clubs. Luckily they didn't find the ruff). It would be very pessimistic not to bid 4S with this hand, and I dare say it is standard when the opps are bidding hearts especially (may be a good save, heart wastage less likely). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 I am surprized you left this one out... on board 21... JanM: Justin just took the 4!d card out of his bidding box and looked at the back to see what the score would be if they made it :) (good observation Jan, that stuff is great) another commentor... hehe... a psychological ploy perhaps as he should already know it Yup.. you betcha.... LOL. Funny that Jan caught this. Obviously I know the score for 4DX=. I was at a table with 2 of the slowest players ever and a partner who is well below average in speed. I was dummy and it was obvious to me what EVERY CARD IN THE DECK WAS in the end game, so obviously they all knew too. It was obvious to me that 4D X was going to make. Yet there was a 5 minute tank, and my partner refused to claim (since he only "knew" the layout and it wasnt 100 % so he couldnt risk a claim, etc). The whole 3rd segment pratap was needling me a little bit (not overly so, but you know..), so in a combination of frustration about the slowness and to get back at them I decided to pull the 4D card out and look at the back and make sure they all saw what I did lol. This induced my partner to semi-claim (lol). Anyways, of course it is not illegal I was dummy and could not affect the play. If I had said the score out loud that would be illegal but I didn't. If I was declarer that too would be illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effervesce Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Are you really allowed to go look at the score on the 4D card? Doesn't that potentially convey information to your partner about the contract making/not making? For the same reason I thought it was illegal as dummy to read the opponent's convention card, as that might suggest to declarer to also look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Is there any junior who doesn't know what 4♦x scores? Thanks for not losing, Justin. I was away (playing bridge) last night, so now I can at least watch the NEXT one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Isn't this using a "mechanical aid" and thus against the laws ....seriously. Back in the days before bidding boxes, it was common for the scoring table to be printed on the back side of the table cards (maybe it still is). An opponent was considering some 6-level action and asked if he could check the scoring table to see how much some slam making was. We called the director and the director told him the score! I wonder if that was a "mechanical aid"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Isn't this using a "mechanical aid" and thus against the laws ....seriously. Back in the days before bidding boxes, it was common for the scoring table to be printed on the back side of the table cards (maybe it still is). An opponent was considering some 6-level action and asked if he could check the scoring table to see how much some slam making was. We called the director and the director told him the score! I wonder if that was a "mechanical aid"? I think that's a biological aid :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y66 Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Good stuff! More please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Are you really allowed to go look at the score on the 4D card? Doesn't that potentially convey information to your partner about the contract making/not making? For the same reason I thought it was illegal as dummy to read the opponent's convention card, as that might suggest to declarer to also look at it.Justin could have been looking to see what the score of 4♦X down one would be... so his partner couldn't know if he was looking up down one or two, or making.... (yes, he knows the score of down one or two doubled also). The full description of this hand was. [hv=d=n&v=n&n=sk7643hk7d3cak754&w=sa982hqt4dt8765cj&e=sthaj9daj42cq9862&s=sqj5h86532dkq9ct3]399|300|Scoring: IMP North East South WestPratap Jlall Landen kmb241♠ DBLE 2(he)[/hv]yyyyy: 2!h = constructive raise to 2!s The auction continued quickly... North East South WestPratap Jlall Landen kmb241♠ DBLE 2(he) 3♦3♥ 4♦ Then a long pause, as you can tell by the following commentsyyyyy: much depends on much Landen can read into the 3!h call yyyyy: double would probably be more balanced by Pratap yyyyy: heart length argues for bidding but diamonds argues for defending zzz: I can't believe he's thinking about bidding 4hV ugraph7: Landen thinking, looks at his hand (he had it folded up) and thinks some more xxxxxx: Many norths wouldn't have bothered with a 3h bid and just bounced to game zzz: he must be thinking about doubling Followed eventually by landen doubling 4♦ and all pass.... zzz: although this makes, doesn't it? xxxxxx: this looks like a maker yyyyy: even with the ace of diamonds in the right place everything lies wonderfully Pratap starts the club King catching 3/Jack... i guess he has to consider if ♣J is honest or from ♣JT Vugraph7: Pratap leaning back and closing his eyes and thinking xxxxx: even with a trump switch.. declarer will play the ace and then just go about his business just made zzz: landen's double at imps seems too aggressive. Maybe he was influenced by prior bidding he's seem from Justin yyyyy: 300 doesn't seem likely so the risk/reward isn't very good About here, Pratap does switch to a club, and kevin takes his time before playing from dummy zzz: seems like he should just go up and cross ruff, taking a heart finesse along the way yyyyy: seems straightforward zzz: if he ducks, he can return a diamond sacrificing a trump trick, but then lall just let's pratap get his high club with the lucky fall of the 10 ->zzz: lall is the dummy zzz: sorry, I mean bathurst Low diamond is played from dummy zzz: ok, that surprised all of us Landen wins the ♦Queen and switches to the ♠Q. Hand is almost double dummy now. Norht has five spades, 3 hearts, one diamond, so 4♣. North has ♠A(J/x)xxx(x) ♥Kxx ♦x ♣AKxx, south ♠Q(J/x)x ♥xxxxx ♦KQx ♣xx. The heart king could be with Landen I guess, but the heart hook will answer that shortly xxxxx: oh no... now it is going down zzz: he can still make it but he has to get the timing exactly right and I don't think he will [hv=d=n&v=n&n=sk7643hk7d3cak754&w=sa982hqt4dt8765cj&e=sthaj9daj42cq9862&s=sqj5h86532dkq9ct3]399|300|Scoring: IMP North East South WestPratap Jlall Landen kmb241♠ DBLE 2(he)[/hv]xxxxx: no.. he will get the en passant in the end zzz: I don't think so, he will get overruffed in spades since he is in his hand now and landen can pitch a spade here zzz: lots of speculation going on here yyyyy: he can still do it but Landen should definitely pitch a spade to make it harder xxxxxx: he'll make it Vugraph7: Landen put his hand down on the table and is thinking Justin characterizes this as a five minute huddle.. that was an undid... sure seemed longer to me. Hand is so double dummy here that even dummy knows every card... seeing only his own hand... yyyyy: "why did I double 4!d? Vugraph7: Fiddling with the spades, maybe deciding which one to pitch xxxxx: perhaps exercising his apology speech to pd Vugraph7: Justin just took the 4!d card out of his bidding box and looked at the back to see what the score would be if they made it B) xxxxx: hehe... a psychological ploy perhaps as he should already know it More delay, but eventually kevin says Vugraph7: Now Kevin says "I'm not claiming but I'll show you my hand"joest: what does that mean? Vugraph7: And Justin says "what does deep finesse say?" Pratap: Deep finesse says 510 Justin not the only one knowing it making, as landen's pause was trying to figure out how to create something in hopeless situation, and Pratap knows it is making, see his 510 comment Vugraph7: Landen shook his head a bit but all of them are back at this board now not another card is played... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 New one from today: Ah the exuberance of youth :lol: Go Justin, only 23 IMPs left! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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