Which auctions seem best?

[inquiry]

♦lr: West   ♠ A54  

Vul: Both   ♥ AJ973  

           ♦ 76    

♠ T96       ♣ K74       ♠ 2  

♥ KQ86                  ♥ 542  

♦ JT52                  ♦ AQ984  

♣ J8        ♠ KQJ873    ♣ 9532  

           ♥ T  

           ♦ K3    

           ♣ AQT6  

 

#1

West   North  East   South  

Pass   Pass   Pass   1♠  

Pass   2♥     Pass   3♠  

Pass   6♠     Pass   Pass  

Pass  

#2

West   North  East   South  

Pass   Pass   Pass   1♠  

Pass   2♥     Pass   2♠  

Pass   4♠     Pass   4NT    

Pass   5♥     Pass   6♠  

Pass   Pass   Pass  

#3

West   North  East   South  

Pass   Pass   Pass   4♠  

Pass   6♠     Pass   Pass  

Pass  

#4

West   North  East   South  

Pass   1♥     Pass   2♠  

Pass   3♠     Pass   4NT    

Pass   5♥     Pass   6♠  

Pass   Pass   Pass  

#5

West   North  East   South  

Pass   1♥     Pass   1♠  

Pass   1NT    Pass   2♣  

Pass   2♠     Pass   4NT    

Pass   5♥     Pass   6♠  

Pass   Pass   Pass  

#6

West   North  East   South  

Pass   1♥     Pass   1♠  

Pass   2♠     Pass   4NT    

Pass   5♥     Pass   6♠  

Pass   Pass   Pass  

#7

West   North  East   South  

Pass   1♥     Pass   1♠  

Pass   1NT    Pass   3♠  

Pass   4♠     Pass   4NT    

Pass   5♥     Pass   6♠  

Pass   Pass   Pass  

#8

West   North  East   South  

Pass   1♥     Pass   1♠  

Pass   1NT    Pass   4NT    

Pass   5♥     Pass   6♠  

Pass   Pass   Pass  

#9

West   North  East   South    

Pass   Pass   Pass   1♠  

Pass   2♥     Pass   3♠  

Pass   6♠     Pass   Pass  

Pass  

#10

West   North  East   South    

Pass   1♥    Pass   1NT*  

Pass   2♠     Pass   3♣  

Pass   4♠     Pass   4NT  

Pass   5♥     Pass   6♠  

Pass   Pass   Pass  

 

*5+♠s

 

BTW, i grabbed all these auctions from one hand set from Bridgebrowser...someone asked if this could be done. I didn;'t think so, but I was wrong... i found it when I looked.

[han]

Frankly, I'm getting tired of the bridgebrowser adds. As for the bridge question, my auction would start with 1H-1S-2S-2NT-3C, where 2NT is an ask and 3C shows a 3-card raise with a club fragment (not forcing). I imagine that that would lead to slam.

[pclayton]

I like 4 and 10. I'm not sure why 2 is added into these as a combo platter.

 

North is a mandatory opener and a mandatory raise of 1♠ (or 2♠).

 

I think in a good field, you'd have most of the auctions start 1♥ - 1♠ - 2♠ and they would diverge from there.

[cjames]

Frankly, I'm getting tired of the bridgebrowser adds.

Me too.

 

My auction would go:

1♥-1♠

1NT -2♦(GF)

2♠-3♠(SI ♠)

4♣-4♦

4♥-4NT

5♥-6♠

[MFA]

My own: 1♥-1♠, 2♠-3♣, 4♠-4NT

3♣ is a trialbid with 5 spades. If p signs off in 3♠, I'll try one more time with 4♣.

 

6 (1♥-1♠, 2♠-4NT)

is not unreasonable.

 

I can't see myself start in any other way than 1♥-1♠, 2♠ since a direct 2♠ would be WJS.

[awm]

I like auction 10 the best, assuming that 1NT alerted showed 5+♠.

 

Auctions 4, 5, and 6 all seem reasonable to me. It does seem like keycard was bid a bit prematurely (no harm in cuebidding for a round first, and it might help) but the south hand is fairly suited to bidding keycard in any case so it's not too awful.

 

Auction 7 seems like north really should cuebid over 3♠ (assuming it's forcing) and south should pass 4♠ given the non-cue. Auction 8, the 4nt call really should be quantitative and therefore seems like a weird choice.

 

The rest of the auctions seem to involve passing the north hand in first seat (this is quite a good twelve-count and passing is awful).

[gnasher]

This slam is sufficiently close to 50% that I don't really care whether I'm in it or not.

 

I dislike all of the auctions offered by the original poster, and I like those suggested by Han and cjames. Any auction that doesn't identify the club mesh is awful. Who would want to play a slam opposite A54 AKJ97 76 742 or A54 KJ973 A6 742 ?

 

My own auction would probably be:

  1♥       1♠

  2♠       3♣

  3NT(1) 4♣

  4♥       4♠

  5♣       6♠

 

(1) 3NT says "I accept the game try", and leaves room for opener to make a slam try if that's what he had in mind. Why doesn't everyone play this?

[Cascade]

I like four and six best.

 

We would have a weak NT auction.

 

I don't understand the multiple passes with the north hand.

[han]

(1) 3NT says "I accept the game try", and leaves room for opener to make a slam try if that's what he had in mind. Why doesn't everyone play this?

I play that 3NT is a suggestion to play there in auctions like this. On this particular hand it is probably a 4-3-3-3 hand with xxx in clubs; it is more common if responder bids 3D or 3H.

[gnasher]

(1) 3NT says "I accept the game try", and leaves room for opener to make a slam try if that's what he had in mind.  Why doesn't everyone play this?

I play that 3NT is a suggestion to play there in auctions like this. On this particular hand it is probably a 4-3-3-3 hand with xxx in clubs; it is more common if responder bids 3D or 3H.

Indeed. A useful side effect of playing 3NT the way I do is that it discourages people from bidding game when they have poor shape and no fitting honour in the game try suit.

[dicklont]

#5 for me. although I would add some cuebidding

 

1H - 1S

1N - 2C (checkback stayman)

2S - 3S (bidding is now mancheforcing)

4C - 4D (mixed cuebidding, kings and aces)

4H - 4N

5H - 6S

[Guest Jlall]

10 looks simple and good to me.

 

Regarding Han's comment about south using a relay after the raise, I think that bidding 3C is much better since the slam will often be about how well the clubs mesh, not how many trumps and/or if partner is min/max.

 

Surprised all the love 4 is getting, I think south has the wrong hand type for a jumpshift. His suit is not self sustaining and it might make it difficult to get to clubs. I think starting with 1S is better.

[mikeh]

I liked none of the auctions.

 

Few, if any, modern experts would pass the North hand, so that eliminates all of those auctions.

 

I don't like number 10, despite Justin's praise of it. Admittedly, slam is only marginally safer from the S seat, but it is safer.. imagine trump 2-2 and the clubs behaving.... cold from South, down on a diamond lead if played by north if the diamond is offside...

 

BTW, I echo the objection to BB ads... while I commend Stephen Pickett for the work and wish him well in his efforts to make money while affording a service to bridge players, I really don't think that BB, used in this way, offers much constructive help to us. But I have ranted often on this topic (including on another current thread) so will stop riding this hobbyhorse now.

[gnasher]

I don't like number 10, despite Justin's praise of it. Admittedly, slam is only marginally safer from the S seat, but it is safer.. imagine trump 2-2 and the clubs behaving.... cold from South, down on a diamond lead if played by north if the diamond is offside...

With trumps 2-2 you don't need clubs behaving - hearts 4-3 is also sufficient, as long as you remember to ruff a heart before drawing trumps.

 

6S from the wrong side is in the low forties. It needs DA right and one of:

- trumps 2-2 (~ 40%)

- clubs coming in (~ a further 30%)

- the same hand having three trumps and four clubs (a bit less less than a further 15%)

 

Played from the right side it's about 50%, I think.

Edit: that assumes a lead that gives nothing away. It's probably better than that in practice because of the chance of a minor-suit lead.

Edited March 11, 2008 by gnasher

[Guest Jlall]

I liked none of the auctions.

 

Few, if any, modern experts would pass the North hand, so that eliminates all of those auctions.

 

I don't like number 10, despite Justin's praise of it. Admittedly, slam is only marginally safer from the S seat, but it is safer.. imagine trump 2-2 and the clubs behaving.... cold from South, down on a diamond lead if played by north if the diamond is offside...

 

BTW, I echo the objection to BB ads... while I commend Stephen Pickett for the work and wish him well in his efforts to make money while affording a service to bridge players, I really don't think that BB, used in this way, offers much constructive help to us. But I have ranted often on this topic (including on another current thread) so will stop riding this hobbyhorse now.

Youre right I didn't notice it got wrongsided (it's a good slam from the right side I think). 10 was actually the worst auction for this reason :P

 

That being said I think that each call in context of the others was most logical in auction 10, and I don't really like the auctions that didnt investigate how the clubs mesh (eg 1H 1S 1N 3S was a fine start, but then north bid 4S with a great slam hand which south should accept imo, but he pressed on and had no idea he was buying such a suitable dummy). Maybe south is supposed to pass since his DK is not protected with his partner bidding spades first, or maybe north is just supposed to bid 3H over 3C, but their auction made the most sense to me.

[sfbp]

Frankly, I'm getting tired of the bridgebrowser adds. As for the bridge question, my auction would start with 1H-1S-2S-2NT-3C, where 2NT is an ask and 3C shows a 3-card raise with a club fragment (not forcing). I imagine that that would lead to slam.

I don't really see this as an ad for BRBR.

 

Perhaps you are being a little over sensitive? (I know, I have been there, done that).

 

People spout a lot of nonsense about what the best bid is which frequently removed from reality, witness the 3H-5H debate i watched some weeks ago. If you dislike having your preconceptions disturbed by the facts......

 

Cheers

 

Stephen

[cherdano]

Lol Stephen, search through Ben's posts in the last couple of months and st all of them are either a pitch for BridgeBrowser (or maybe Homebase).

 

I really think BrBr has it's uses but I don't think the way you and Ben are presenting it here in the forum is helpful anymore.

 

I don't remember the 3H-5H thread you are referring to, can you post a pointer to the thread?

[han]

The only thing these bridgebrowser threads have been good for is that now I know how to spell the word ad. The hand is interesting but the bridgebrowser search adds (trying two d's here) nothing.

[sfbp]

BTW, I echo the objection to BB ads... while I commend Stephen Pickett for the work and wish him well in his efforts to make money while affording a service to bridge players, I really don't think that BB, used in this way, offers much constructive help to us. But I have ranted often on this topic (including on another current thread) so will stop riding this hobbyhorse now.

Nice to be damned by faint praise. I guess noone makes money out of anything to do with bridge....

 

But I actually don't see anything ranting or offensive in your other post (I went and looked at it, and it seems perfectly reasonable - and reasoned).

 

I don't think I will ever make money on the scale the pro's do. Fred warned me this many years ago. So far I am 7 years, over $6,000 cash out of pocket, and many many hours of completely unpaid programming. Call it persistence. We had a few nibbles from pro teams, any one of which might have made me rich(or at least repay my investment). But they all so far have preconceived ideas just like yours, that only studying high quality bridge by high quality players will ever yield anything in this endeavour. Good players (especially pros) have to play against a lot of bad players, and make a lot of "bad" bids in the process, too, as I am sure you would admit.

 

Without all the bad players there would be no tournaments, right?

 

But I do take offence that you attempt to rubbish (in this thread) something that was offered for free that you chose not to investigate. I cannot speak for Ben, but I feel sure he posted those auctions because they raise interesting questions which normally are quite hard to capture. Sure, the ability to produce these are a great advertisement for BRBR.... if they weren't, I guess you might have said so using factual reasoning? As I know you are very good at doing.

 

Maybe we should meet at a sectional or regional one of these days - you might be surprised how nice I am face to face. At least that's what someone told me a few years ago after a flame war where the person concerned thought I was some sort of monster.

 

Cheers

 

Stephen

[sfbp]

Lol Stephen, search through Ben's posts in the last couple of months and st all of them are either a pitch for BridgeBrowser (or maybe Homebase).

 

I really think BrBr has it's uses but I don't think the way you and Ben are presenting it here in the forum is helpful anymore.

 

I don't remember the 3H-5H thread you are referring to, can you post a pointer to the thread?

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?showtopic=23302

[Guest Jlall]

Frankly, I'm getting tired of the bridgebrowser adds. As for the bridge question, my auction would start with 1H-1S-2S-2NT-3C, where 2NT is an ask and 3C shows a 3-card raise with a club fragment (not forcing). I imagine that that would lead to slam.

I don't really see this as an ad for BRBR.

 

Perhaps you are being a little over sensitive? (I know, I have been there, done that).

 

People spout a lot of nonsense about what the best bid is which frequently removed from reality, witness the 3H-5H debate i watched some weeks ago. If you dislike having your preconceptions disturbed by the facts......

 

Cheers

 

Stephen

Are you serious?

 

Ben's posts often include bridge browser. This is obviously to promote/increase the visibility of...bridge browser (or homebase sometimes). You think Ben's posts just happen to include stuff about bridge browser? It is advertising. One might even consider it bordering on spam at this point, but Ben is smart and carefully slips it into something relevant to a bridge post. We can call it thinly-veiled spam.

 

It is annoying, and Han just said what many people have felt for a while. I think most people just put up with it out of respect for Ben, who has probably done more for this forum than anyone, and as such has earned more leniency than anyone else. If you look at it like a ratio of useful/helpful posts to the community to bad posts, Ben has a great ratio as opposed to some other regular poster like mike777 or even myself. I really want to see Ben succeed with homebase and bridge browser because I like him and respect what he has done for the community.

 

All that being said we've been putting up with it for a while now, and Han finally decided to say something. I commend him for having the courage to do so. Hopefully Ben does not take this as ungratefulness for all that he has done.

 

To imply that HAN, one of the most neutral posters on this forum, made his comment because of his own biases/agenda is just HILARIOUS. Ben is clearly the one with an agenda, and so are you.

 

Your ratio of useful:bad posts is so awful that I don't feel I owe you the same respect that I owe Ben.

[sfbp]

Your ratio of useful:bad posts is so awful that I don't feel I owe you the same respect that I owe Ben.

For instance?

 

When was the last time (before this weekend) I posted anything about BRBR?

 

Ah, I've got it - you wrote PostBrowser and can give me detailed statistics....

 

Cmon Justin, your last post begs an apology - by you.

[Guest Jlall]

Nice to be damned by faint praise. I guess noone makes money out of anything to do with bridge....

 

But I actually don't see anything ranting or offensive in your other post (I went and looked at it, and it seems perfectly reasonable - and reasoned).

 

I don't think I will ever make money on the scale the pro's do. Fred warned me this many years ago. So far I am 7 years, over $6,000 cash out of pocket, and many many hours of completely unpaid programming. Call it persistence. We had a few nibbles from pro teams, any one of which might have made me rich(or at least repay my investment). But they all so far have preconceived ideas just like yours, that only studying high quality bridge by high quality players will ever yield anything in this endeavour. Good players (especially pros) have to play against a lot of bad players, and make a lot of "bad" bids in the process, too, as I am sure you would admit.

That is a really heart warming story.

 

But I do take offence that you attempt to rubbish (in this thread) something that was offered for free that you chose not to investigate. I cannot speak for Ben, but I feel sure he posted those auctions because they raise interesting questions which normally are quite hard to capture. Sure, the ability to produce these are a great advertisement for BRBR.... if they weren't, I guess you might have said so using factual reasoning? As I know you are very good at doing.

 

Well gee, Ben sure has a lot of things that are "interesting" that stem from bridge browser, that sure is lucky. Oh and it happens to be in his best interest to post them, and it happens to advertise something he has an interest in advertising.

 

Let's see some of Ben's recent posts (in the last month):

 

Feb 15th- Ben posts about a bridge browser study he did: http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...l=bridgebrowser

 

Feb 18th- Ben posts again on the previous thread noting some of the great things you can do with bridge browser.

 

Feb 25th- Ben advises people to join homebaseclub for free access to bridgebrowser as a "solution" to a problem having nothing to do with bridgebrowser.. http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...l=bridgebrowser

 

Feb 25th- Ben does a bridgebrowser study after hrothgar posts a hand where gambling 3N is used. At least its directly related: http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...l=bridgebrowser

 

Feb 29th- Ben creates a post showing a screenshot directly from bridge browser to spot his error. He could have easily just posted this as a play problem but then adds an aside an advertisement for homebase, and mentions the screenshot was created from bridgebrowser (which did you know, is provided for free if you play in homebase!). He then links to homebase... http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...l=bridgebrowser

 

March 1st- Ben adds to the previous post about some of the cool things you can do in homebase.

 

March 7th- In reply to a question about how to output hands, Ben notes that he can do it with bridgebrowser, and links to homebaseclub to show an exampleof what it would look like. http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...l=bridgebrowser

 

March 7th- Ben creates a whole thread about how to try the full version of bridgebrowser, complete with a description of what it can do and links to homebase. Also notes that it is free if you are a homebase member. He even links to his how-to movies for bridgebrowser. http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...l=bridgebrowser

 

March 8th- Ben follows up previous thread answering questions about how to use bridgebrowser (certainly reasonable) but then adds another post in the thread about how bridgebrowser is free to those who play in homebase. He also has another post where he links to the homebase newsletter. He also posts more screenshots from bridgebrowser.

 

March 10th- Several LONG screenshots from bridgebrowser, mostly extraneous (he did not need to screenshot his process). He could have just posted the results in a few lines, but chose to advertise a little. http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...l=bridgebrowser

 

March 10th- This thread, which he created, which once again stems from bridgebrowser, and once again bridgebrowser didn't need to be mentioned (he could just say that here are 10 auctions, which are the best, but he adds a BTW). http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...l=bridgebrowser

 

So if you really expect people to think that these posts are not made to increase the visibility and interest in bridgebrowser which directly affects the poster in a positive way then that is seriously funny. You have no credibility. It is clear to everyone what is happening, and several members of the community are fed up enough with it that they have requested that it stop.

 

Further I think that BBF should have a policy against excessive posts that promote a product that the poster has an interest in, as most forums do (except for BBO products obviously). I also think as the moderator's are ideally supposed to remain neutral, it is especially bad for a moderator to do this. Even BBO does not try to promote it's products this much!

[Guest Jlall]

Your ratio of useful:bad posts is so awful that I don't feel I owe you the same respect that I owe Ben.

For instance?

 

When was the last time (before this weekend) I posted anything about BRBR?

 

Ah, I've got it - you wrote PostBrowser and can give me detailed statistics....

 

Cmon Justin, your last post begs an apology - by you.

You cannot seriously be this stupid??

 

Before this weekend your last post about ANYTHING was december 9th 2006. Yes, a year and a half ago.

 

LOLOL and you ask the question "when was the last time before this weekend I posted anything about BRBR?" haha. Good point. And I even specified that we are talking about the ratio of useful:useless posts. Apparantly you find not posting at all to count towards being useful; which I agree with! Unfortunately it doesn't count as a post.

 

ALL of your posts since you have "come back" to the forums have been related to bridge browser with the exception of 1 post. It is obvious why you have "returned," and that is to promote bridgebrowser.

 

Despite a very low %age of total posts being about bridgebrowser since you have returned, you have only managed to grace us with your presence in ONE post out of 6 that you have decided to post in that does not relate to bridgebrowser? The other 5 have been to help yourself? I think I can speak for the community as a whole when I say we do not wish to have someone who only wants to further their own agenda and contribute nothing that doesn't help themselves.

[sfbp]

You have no credibility.

I asked you (in another post here) which post *I* made advertising BRBR,

 

Instead you answer about Ben who you respect, and fail to answer my question instead substituting an ad hominem attack.

 

What bad post(s) did I make? Or is this merely your impression bolstered by an unpleasant experience at NABC where you behaved like a p*g and I called you on it?

 

What advertisement did I make about BRBR? (AFAIK the posting I did here was purely followup to feedback from people who tried BRBR on Saturday).

 

What justifies your sarcasm "a heartwarming story"? I told you facts. You appear to imply (dangerous ground here) that I am in some way embroidering. I am not.

 

Don't think you can win this one, Justin. Apologize.