ACBL Electronics ban

[helene_t]

I feel the same as Mike777. That may be partly because I'm not a regular cell phone user. But when staying at a hotel I tend to leave passport, purse etc. at the hotel room as much as possible, figuring that my values are safer there than in my handbag.

 

In the unlikely event that I expected to make or receive an urgent call between rounds, I would be ok with leaving my cell phone with my coat in the cloakroom.

 

Then again, I also don't see why it would be such a problem to allow players to carry cell phones. To use the vibration as a hint ("a short vib means lead a trump, a long vib means lead dummy's suit") the assistant would need to know which board the player was playing exactly when, so he either needs to be a kibitzer (hard to operate a cell phone while kibitzing without being noticed) or the match must be BBO covered, in which case stricter security measures may apply.

[mike777]

I feel the same as Mike777. That may be partly because I'm not a regular cell phone user. But when staying at a hotel I tend to leave passport, purse etc. at the hotel room as much as possible, figuring that my values are safer there than in my handbag.

 

In the unlikely event that I expected to make or receive an urgent call between rounds, I would be ok with leaving my cell phone with my coat in the cloakroom.

 

Then again, I also don't see why it would be such a problem to allow players to carry cell phones. To use the vibration as a hint ("a short vib means lead a trump, a long vib means lead dummy's suit") the assistant would need to know which board the player was playing exactly when, so he either needs to be a kibitzer (hard to operate a cell phone while kibitzing without being noticed) or the match must be BBO covered, in which case stricter security measures may apply.

Helene, you seem to imply that it would be difficult if not impossible to cheat via a cell phone. I know almost nothing about them but I thought it would very easy to cheat if one wanted to. I run to the restroom or to the bar to refill alot already. How hard is it to read a text msg there. B)

 

At my local club at I have seen at least two people with those "bluetooth" devices on their ears during the whole round. :)

 

Of course I have been told that at least one famous MP player could walk to the bathroom and memorize every dummy he passed by so........:)

[barmar]

At my local club at I have seen at least two people with those "bluetooth" devices on their ears during the whole round. B)

And I wonder how long it will be before manufacturers can make those bluetooth headsets as small as hearing aids. Since the majority of bridge players are elderly, many of them would then be able to get away with claiming that they're hearing aids -- who's going to challenge them?

[helene_t]

OK, fair point. At grammar school during exams one could sometimes find solutions to the tests on small paper noted hidden at the toilets, but OK, with cell phones it would be a lot easier.

 

Last weekend at the Blackpool Congress we played 7-board rounds with all tables playing the same boards in the same round, so I would have to have my friend playing the boards in a different order than I did (which was beyond our control and not disclosed in advance) and then we both would have to go to the toilet during the round (which was unusual) and then the whole stress of having to notice something about a board useful to my friend, how to make my point clear in an SMS (oh ***** was it board 7 or board 8 where I could give p a ruff by leading a club?) plus the fear of getting caught would certainly impair my play a lot.

 

And then I manage to instruct my friend to lead a club only to hear afterwards "thanks but I was dummy on that board".

[hrothgar]

Here's the "Cheating Model" that I suspect that folks are worried about

 

1. I am playing in a typical ACBL event in which boards are not played simultaneously.

 

2. I play board X and Y

 

3. I wander off to the bathroom, go into a stall, pull a cell phone out of my pocket, pop in a battery (stored separately) and send a text message to my confederate providing some critical piece of information.

 

4. Five minutes later, after I return to my seat. My confederate wanders off to a completely different bathroom, repeats the proceedure, and retrieves the information.

 

I'll repeat my basic points

 

First: I appreciate the fact that folks are concerned about this type of behaviour.

 

Second: Don't pass stupid laws. Banning electronic devices will have no practical impact on people's ability to cheat. I doubt that banning cell phones will have any practical impact on the number of folks who carry cell phones.

 

Third: If you really want to stop this type of cheating then you need to make systemic changes in the way that baords are dealt and played. I find it pathetic that the ACBL is willing to pass cosmetic sets of rules changes that inconvince the membership as a whole without any apparant discussion about real security measures (dealing machines, etc)

[helene_t]

And I wonder how long it will be before manufacturers can make those bluetooth headsets as small as hearing aids. Since the majority of bridge players are elderly, many of them would then be able to get away with claiming that they're hearing aids -- who's going to challenge them?

Better still, a friend of mine who suffers from Parkinson just got a brain implant so that he can jam his own motor neurons with a remote control.

[joshs]

Once again, the ACBL strikes. I am all for eliminating cheating, but this really is going rather far. I hope the ACBL sets up a way to check cellphones or attendence will probably seriously suffer.

 

When I go to nationals:

a. I almost never stay at the host hotel. Its too expensive.

b. I rarely have a rental car

c. I generally go to nationals where I have friends I want to visit with, or there are other things to do. For instance in San Fran I met up with friends a few evenings and went to dinner and then had to call a cab to get back to the playing site. This coordination is really hard without cell phones.

d. I often like to go and kibbitz for an hour or so when I am not playing, andt hen go off and do other things.

e. In the past, I had to be on conference calls for work before or between sessions on occasion, although this has not been happening with my current job.

 

Putting this all together, if I had to leave my cell phone in my hotel room, it has a major impact on my enjoyment of nationals. Its not as easy as going upstairs to the room to get it, since the hotel room is often a 20-30 minute walk away.

 

p.s. Arranging last minute partnerships for national events without a cell phone is kind of hard....

[uday]

Mike, I don't think this is just about texting our BFFs.

 

Must some people be reachable while playing bridge? I think so. I have a child in daycare at most NABCs. My inlaws are over 90 years old. I have an online system that has to be up 24x7. I sorta-kinda don't *have* to be reachable at all hours, but I sorta-kinda do.

 

This isn't a huge issue. Many workarounds exist.

 

Maybe cellphones don't work in the basement anyway. Maybe we'll be able to pass our cellphones to the director. Maybe we'll be able to pay a caddy to carry our phones while we play. Maybe one of our pals will be willing to hold them for us. Maybe the hotel desk will hold them for us. Maybe we'll learn to relax instead of worrying.

 

At the same time, this isn't a non-issue.

 

Some host hotels have "elevator issues" before and after sessions, and it can take 20 minutes to catch a ride. Some people choose to carry their cellphones between sessions and they have to have a reasonable solution for stashing and retrieving their phones quickly and safely.

 

I'm sure no one thinks that the ACBL is simply being capricious here. They're trying to solve a problem (cheating via texting, it seems). Maybe this isn't the perfect answer and time will help them refine it. The one thing I'm sure of is that the ACBL wants us all to have a good time at NABCs.

[cherdano]

Of course whatever committee made this decision had no evil intentions. But most likely they live in a reality where cell phones aren't as important as in the reality of many of the younger NABC attendants.

[TimG]

Third:  If you really want to stop this type of cheating then you need to make systemic changes in the way that boards are dealt and played.  I find it pathetic that the ACBL is willing to pass cosmetic sets of rules changes that inconvenience the membership as a whole without any apparent discussion about real security measures (dealing machines, etc)

The last time I played in the Vanderbilt, my teammates played in the same room as I did and we passed boards back and forth. We also were free to leave the table and wander the halls at any point, it seemed almost every table took the "caddy call" break to leave the playing area to smoke/visit the restroom/get a beverage/stretch their legs. Maybe some players took the opportunity to call home/work/teammates. If I had been part of a six-man team, I could easily have communicated to a team member who was not playing this segment (who could then relay information to teammates who were playing). There were no restrictions on kibitzers entering or leaving the room.

 

I'm sure security gets tighter as the event progresses. But, I totally agree with Richard that eliminating cellphones does not address the real issues. And, that ACBL could foster a different attitude amongst the players by first taking care of matters of condition for which ACBL should be directly responsible.

 

I'll bet that if ACBL had first set up the events in a professional manner and then there were still serious concerns about cheating via cellphones, there would be far less opposition to a cell phone ban.

 

(Of course, I don't have any idea whether there is lots of opposition to this new rule -- the opinions of a few BBO forum users is probably not representative of ABCL membership as a whole or the players who are contending for NABC titles.)

 

In Jonathan Steinberg's Detroit Report I read that "In Detroit, the ACBL hired a firm to monitor and record players." I don't expect that was cheap. That expenditure would likely have been a nice start to a fund for dealing machines and cards.

[awm]

In addition to helping prevent cheating and possibly costing less than player monitoring and cell phone detectors....

 

Dealing machines might actually enhance the enjoyment of nationals for most players.

 

I mean, it's kind of ridiculous that we're manually duplicating boards on the first day of the life master pairs. It creates opportunities for even "inadvertent" cheating (i.e. seeing the hand diagram on the duplication sheet), and it's a pain. A few extra dealing machines and we could have pre duplicated boards on day one (even for the regionally rated games), and have simultaneous play on day two.

[Mbodell]

8550 tables/10 days/3 events per day = 285 tables/event*4 players/table= 1140 players/event. If players play in half the available events, then 1140*15=17100 players. Just a guess; you could argue with my assumptions. :)

I think something is wrong with your guesstimate. 8550 tables = 34,200 player sessions. If each player at the NABC plays in an average of 4 sessions, that means 8550 individuals. If players average more than 4 sessions, there will be fewer than 8550 individuals; if players average fewer than 4 sessions, there will be more than 8550 individuals. I'm guessing that the average NABC patron plays more than 4 sessions.

Well we know roughly how many people played based on how many won masterpoints.

 

3555 won master points. How many people played in nationals and didn't win any masterpoints? Maybe only a few locals as I'd imagine nearly everyone else would have at least won a match award in a loser swiss or what not. So probably 3600 or 3700 people total in detroit.

[the hog]

Mike, I don't think this is just about texting our BFFs.

 

Must some people be reachable while playing bridge? I think so. I have a child in daycare at most NABCs. My inlaws are over 90 years old. I have an online system that has to be up 24x7. I sorta-kinda don't *have* to be reachable at all hours, but I sorta-kinda do.

So what did you do in the years before mobile phones?

Thye have to be switched off in Oz events or else you are liable to a 5VP fine.

[Elianna]

I'm not upset about not being able to use my phone. I'm not happy being told that I have to leave my phone somewhere. I have yet to hear a proposal where I would feel safe leaving the second-most expensive object that I own. And leaving it in my hotel room is impossible, as the very reason for bringing one to an NABC is to be in contact with partners/teammates before the game.

[matmat]

So what did you do in the years before mobile phones?

Thye have to be switched off in Oz events or else you are liable to a 5VP fine.

I have no problem with the phones being switched off, I have a problem with being told that people have to leave their phones at some inaccessible place.

[mike777]

So what did you do in the years before mobile phones?

Thye have to be switched off in Oz events or else you are liable to a 5VP fine.

I have no problem with the phones being switched off, I have a problem with being told that people have to leave their phones at some inaccessible place.

:( that is kind of the point of the ban......the phone is not accessible......

 

silent or off is just useless....:) Many will not even turn the phone off, see poll. :)

 

As I said if this is really the major thing you guys make it out to be the ban will last one day. :)

[mike777]

btw at the team trials or WC what are the procedures for safekeeping and returning the phones between rounds.

 

They must have a thousand phones in the early rounds of WC.

[helene_t]

They must have a thousand phones in the early rounds of WC.

What? Are we not allowed to use cell phones in the Water Cooler either?

[skjaeran]

They must have a thousand phones in the early rounds of WC.

What? Are we not allowed to use cell phones in the Water Cooler either?

Of course not. Helene!....

[Walddk]

I don't own a mobile and have survived, bridge or not bridge. I am actually allergic to mobiles; they give me goose bumps, not least when they go off while I teach. I am dying to take them, one by one, and throw them out of the window.

 

In fact, I hold the East Danish record in "Mobile Throwing from the Second Floor". 41 meters and 22 centimeters into head wind ;)

 

I can only think of one item that's worse than a mobile: chewing gum! So as far as I'm concerned, I think everyone should glue their chewing gum to their mobiles and throw them away.

 

Roland

[matmat]

I don't own a mobile and have survived, bridge or not bridge. I am actually allergic to mobiles; they give me goose bumps, not least when they go off while I teach. I am dying to take them, one by one, and throw them out of the window.

 

In fact, I hold the East Danish record in "Mobile Throwing from the Second Floor". 41 meters and 22 centimeters into head wind ;)

 

I can only think of one item that's worse than a mobile: chewing gum! So as far as I'm concerned, I think everyone should glue their chewing gum to their mobiles and throw them away.

 

Roland

I think chewing gum at the bridge table is rude.

[effervesce]

Depends; bad breath is even worse than chewing IMO.

[Apollo81]

I can sort of understand this policy for late rounds of NABC+ events that dont have a lot of players left (Vanderbilt round of 8, NAOP final, etc) because it would be relatively easy to set up a phone checkin system for such a small number of people. I can also see why this is OK for the USBF trials since everyone (pretty much) stays in the host hotel.

 

How on earth is this going to work for an event like the 1st day of the LM pairs? People aren't going to leave their phones in their rooms in another hotel, that's for sure.

[TimG]

It's funny, I was initially opposed to the ban, not because I thought it particularly unreasonable, but rather because I thought it impractical and I thought it did not address more important issues of playing conditions that make illegal communication (with or without hi-tech devices) trivial.

 

But, upon reading the many posts in the multiple threads, I'm more inclined to support the ban. The reasons against have mostly been along the lines of putting personal convenience above the integrity of the event. As someone else has mentioned, many of those speaking against the ban sound like spoiled brats. As such, they don't garner much sympathy.

[hrothgar]

But, upon reading the many posts in the multiple threads, I'm more inclined to support the ban. The reasons against have mostly been along the lines of putting personal convenience above the integrity of the event. As someone else has mentioned, many of those speaking against the ban sound like spoiled brats. As such, they don't garner much sympathy.

I don't think that its at all strange to discover individuals place a high value on personal convenience... (Moreover, I don't think anyone came across as particularly bratty)

 

For better or worse, most folks use some kind of cost benefit analysis when they decide whether or not to obey a law:

 

The Law says that I can't drive above 65 miles an hour, but I do because I often want to minimize the time I spend in a car

 

The rules say that everyone must carry a complete convention card documenting their agreements, but hardly anyone does

 

I'm a realist. I know that if folks needs to decide between

 

1. Obeying some stupid new rule

2. Maintaining the convenience of having a cell phone in their pocket for after the game

 

Choice 2 is going to win out a hell of the lot of the time.

 

Don't get me wrong, its certainly possible to mobilize broad popular support for some very inconvenient laws. However, the folks being inconvenienced need to believe that the problem is real and the solution is necessary.

 

I don't think that the ACBL has done any of the necessary leg work... They simply handed some random new regulation, with the obvious expectation that the high esteem that the membership at large holds for the BoD will cause them all to fall right in line...

 

Yeah, right