ACBL Electronics ban

[jtfanclub]

Until the ACBL assure us there is a reasonable solution for "stashing and retrieving" our cell phones, this ban will not work, and even in the limited cases where it does work, it will engender ill-will among the members forced to follow it.

 

I agree with that, it is a shame no one seems to want to suggest a workable, alternative solution

"no one seems to want?"

 

Believe me, plenty of us would offer solutions if we had them, but another solution is not evident.

No cell phones or other communication devices in the pockets of players, period. Players may place them on the table in full view of everybody, with any display turned face down. Cell phones may not be taken with players during breaks in major team games.

 

People in the immediate area must have their cell phones, boom boxes, and other noisemakers on silent. Any non-player who creates a racket, though a device or through conversation, will be escorted from the playing area and asked to not return.

[jdonn]

Placing your cell phone on the table is not plausible, unless you want 10 people to forget or lose their cell phones every session. Even if it's just for a moment that's plenty of time for it to be stolen.

[Mbodell]

Are you aware that if a cell phone is off it can not ring? Any more than you can post on the forums if your computer is turned off.

would that not indicate they had not turned it off as required?

There is already a penalty for your phone ringing during the session, so I don't exactly see what you are suggesting, other than that they do a better job of enforcing that rule. I think every single person here who doesn't want to give up their cell phone, including me, gladly admits that it should have to be off during the session.

As you point out they don't really enforce that rule. My partner's cell phone went off Sunday during the last round of a sectional swiss teams and even though a director was packing up next to the table no one said anything, although we got some dirty looks from other players. The irony is 90% of the time I ask my partner if she turned off her cell and she always says yes but this weekend I forgot to ask.

[jtfanclub]

Placing your cell phone on the table is not plausible, unless you want 10 people to forget or lose their cell phones every session. Even if it's just for a moment that's plenty of time for it to be stolen.

For a pairs game, it would be difficult. For a team game, that's pretty easy. If all four people want to get up for some reason, have somebody watch the table. Or have each player pick up the cell phone of the player on their left, and put it back when play resumes.

 

Once people get used to it, there should be very few problems. If an individual is that worried about forgetting it, they'll have to find other methods, such as having a member of the team who's sitting out carry it (with these rules, where the kibbitzers can carry turned off cell phones, that's not as big a deal). When they're done and comparing scores, they aren't 'players' at that point so they can take their cell phones with them at that point.

[jdonn]

If an individual is that worried about forgetting it, they'll have to find other methods

Glad we agree that for many people it wouldn't work.

[jtfanclub]

If an individual is that worried about forgetting it, they'll have to find other methods

Glad we agree that for many people it wouldn't work.

Careful, what did you say about misquoting earlier?

 

Because the rules I proposed allow people to carry turned off cell phones who aren't actually playing, this makes it much easier to find alternatives, such as having a friend carry it. If there aren't that many players who can't remember their cell phones and can't find a friend or teammate to give it to, then the director can hold the remaining cell phones.

[sceptic]

sceptic, the new ban is NOT just while playing. The new rule says that you can't even have the cellphone in the hallways near the playing area. E.g. you can't put the cell phone in your coat pocket and hang the coat on a coat rack outside the doors. Nor can you use the phone when you leave the room during a hospitality break.

 

This rule goes much further than the current rule that requires you to turn off your cellphone while playing.

ok so comply with the rule I still dont see the problem

[jdonn]

If an individual is that worried about forgetting it, they'll have to find other methods

Glad we agree that for many people it wouldn't work.

Careful, what did you say about misquoting earlier?

 

Because the rules I proposed allow people to carry turned off cell phones who aren't actually playing, this makes it much easier to find alternatives, such as having a friend carry it. If there aren't that many players who can't remember their cell phones and can't find a friend or teammate to give it to, then the director can hold the remaining cell phones.

I took part of your quote, I didn't change it like other people (not you) have done.

 

See my post in the other thread per having the director hold them.

[sceptic]

This rule goes much further than the current rule that requires you to turn off your cellphone while playing.

 

which obviously does not work in its current format, maybe because people won't comply?

[matmat]

This rule goes much further than the current rule that requires you to turn off your cellphone while playing.

 

which obviously does not work in its current format, maybe because people won't comply?

my understanding is because the directors don't enforce it.

[sceptic]

This rule goes much further than the current rule that requires you to turn off your cellphone while playing.

 

which obviously does not work in its current format, maybe because people won't comply?

my understanding is because the directors don't enforce it.

well yes that maybe so, but the reason is probably beacuse they don't have the confidence to stand up to the whingerss that throw thier rattles out the pram everytime, they dont get thier own way

[matmat]

well yes that maybe so, but the reason is probably beacuse they don't have the confidence to stand up to the whingerss that throw thier rattles out the pram everytime, they dont get thier own way

http://www.thirdwayblog.com/images/400/troll.0.jpg

[sceptic]

I am a lot fatter than that

[jkdood]

sceptic, the new ban is NOT just while playing.  The new rule says that you can't even have the cellphone in the hallways near the playing area.  E.g. you can't put the cell phone in your coat pocket and hang the coat on a coat rack outside the doors.  Nor can you use the phone when you leave the room during a hospitality break.

 

This rule goes much further than the current rule that requires you to turn off your cellphone while playing.

When I attended nationals more frequently, without a cellphone, I FREQUENTLY went to a Payphone on breaks or if done with a round early to:

a) check voice messages at work or at home

b ) leave messages

c) check stock or fund positions

 

Of course these things can be done with cellphones. But I do not see a mention of banning use of the payphone (as antiquated as it may be) in the hallways of ACBL+ events...

 

...if cells are used to cheat so much that a new rule is needed, why is there no ban on payphone usage, where one can leave a message "4-0 trump break board 22"

or did i miss it?

[barmar]

Are you sure there ISN'T a rule against using a payphone during the session? I'm not sure where all these restrictions (like the one prohibiting partners from being in the restroom at the same time) are listed, so I don't know how to check.

[mike777]

"This is not just cell phones. The ban includes earphones of all kinds, PDAs, I-pods and all other electronic devices.

 

There will not be any place to check or store the devices, so please leave them in your hotel room or car. It is possible a vendor will fill this need. I do not believe there will be metal detectors to pass through, but there may be equipment that is capable of detecting cell phones.

 

There will be medical exceptions. If you believe your device is "health-related equipment", please clear it with Chief Tournament Director (Rick Beye) before you go to the tournament.

 

Currently, this policy only applies in national-rated events at NABCs beginning with the Las Vegas NABC in July. This will probably pass on to regional events after a few trial runs in the NABC events.

 

This policy will be strictly enforced. The first violation carries a bridge penalty, the second results in expulsion from the event for the pair or team. "

 

"I am still not sure it can be successfully implemented below the level of NABC events. "

 

 

http://dist8adv.home.comcast.net/~dist8adv/

[mycroft]

Interesting. My PDA is incapable of receiving or transmitting information without it's wired cord - it's old and cheap enough that it doesn't even have IR. But I guess it's easier to blanket ban rather than probing for the odd exception; after all, I don't expect TDs to be computer experts, any more than they expect me to be good at seeding the Vanderbilt.

[Vilgan]

Currently, this policy only applies in national-rated events at NABCs beginning with the Las Vegas NABC in July. This will probably pass on to regional events after a few trial runs in the NABC events.

Who cares about regional events? I mean... seriously. They are cool and fun and all, but its not like regular points mean a damn thing. If you go to the trouble to text msg something about about a board in a regional event.. you fail at life. Its not like there is any sort of long term recognition for winning a regional event like there is for winning a national one.

 

I can sort of see this in NABC events, but imo its probably not going to be enforced very well. It also seems sort of silly when they don't even have screens for a lot of sessions where they probably should (day 2 and beyond in all national events imo).

 

Don't think I'm saying anything new, but the idea of extending this to regional events is ludicrous.

[JanM]

I can sort of see this in NABC events, but imo its probably not going to be enforced very well. It also seems sort of silly when they don't even have screens for a lot of sessions where they probably should (day 2 and beyond in all national events imo).

I'm a big fan of screens, for lots of reasons, but you have to realize that they are very expensive, both because of the cost of shipping and setting up the tables with screens (even ignoring the cost of buying them to begin with) and because a table with screen takes about twice as much space as a table without screens, which usually has to be paid for. I have a feeling that if entry fees for day 2 and on in the NABC events were doubled or tripled to pay for having screens, there would be a huge outcry.

[TimG]

I can sort of see this in NABC events, but imo its probably not going to be enforced very well. It also seems sort of silly when they don't even have screens for a lot of sessions where they probably should (day 2 and beyond in all national events imo).

I'm a big fan of screens, for lots of reasons, but you have to realize that they are very expensive, both because of the cost of shipping and setting up the tables with screens (even ignoring the cost of buying them to begin with) and because a table with screen takes about twice as much space as a table without screens, which usually has to be paid for. I have a feeling that if entry fees for day 2 and on in the NABC events were doubled or tripled to pay for having screens, there would be a huge outcry.

There is no requirement that cost of entry in an event be proportional to the cost of running an event. NABC+ events should be showcases, if entry fees don't cover costs, that's not a problem to me.

[jdonn]

I can sort of see this in NABC events, but imo its probably not going to be enforced very well. It also seems sort of silly when they don't even have screens for a lot of sessions where they probably should (day 2 and beyond in all national events imo).

I'm a big fan of screens, for lots of reasons, but you have to realize that they are very expensive, both because of the cost of shipping and setting up the tables with screens (even ignoring the cost of buying them to begin with) and because a table with screen takes about twice as much space as a table without screens, which usually has to be paid for. I have a feeling that if entry fees for day 2 and on in the NABC events were doubled or tripled to pay for having screens, there would be a huge outcry.

So the outcry over stealing an entire class of peoples' way of life doesn't matter when compared to an outcry over a generally affluent class of people paying $10 extra to play (to support a FAR more effective cheating deterrant) because..... the outcry is not as big? Or because the people in charge are only listening to certain 'outcriers'?

[jdonn]

This policy will be strictly enforced.

My reaction ranges from "if they had strictly enforced the last policy we wouldn't need this one" to "why should I believe them after they didn't enforce the last policy?"

[TimG]

So the outcry over stealing an entire class of peoples' way of life

No hyperbole?

[Vilgan]

I can sort of see this in NABC events, but imo its probably not going to be enforced very well. It also seems sort of silly when they don't even have screens for a lot of sessions where they probably should (day 2 and beyond in all national events imo).

I'm a big fan of screens, for lots of reasons, but you have to realize that they are very expensive, both because of the cost of shipping and setting up the tables with screens (even ignoring the cost of buying them to begin with) and because a table with screen takes about twice as much space as a table without screens, which usually has to be paid for. I have a feeling that if entry fees for day 2 and on in the NABC events were doubled or tripled to pay for having screens, there would be a huge outcry.

On the flipside though, the current times they use screens the tables/screens are very heavy and expensive looking.. at least from what I recall of my experience with them. If they made screens less of an exotic item and approached it more from a mass produced perspective it seems like a lot of the size/weight/initial cost issues can be mitigated. Screens don't have to be expensive/heavy/exotic, that's just the approach it seems like the ACBL has taken (no clue outside the ACBL). Hell, screens could be cloth as long as it was dark enough to not be seen through.

 

As for setup... unload them in the corner and ask players to grab the components to set it up (again, heavy is a bad thing here). I'm pretty sure those who have physical difficulties with it can get help from their opponents or a nearby table.

 

Anyways, I'm not saying this is implementable without there being costs. It does seem, however, somewhat naive/foolish/arbitrary to ban an item many people use constantly for a million things while ignoring all the much bigger problems of UI at the table. The fact the cell phone ban is very hard to enforce only makes it worse. All the law abiding people get massively inconvenienced, all the ones who might be tempted to cheat aren't going to give a flip about the cell phone rule. So the end result is a bunch of inconvenienced non cheating individuals and no reduction in the potential for cheating at a tournament.

[TimG]

As for setup... unload them in the corner and ask players to grab the components to set it up (again, heavy is a bad thing here). I'm pretty sure those who have physical difficulties with it can get help from their opponents or a nearby table.

No. It may be OK for people to take down chairs and tables after a small local tournament, but the playing areas for a NABC should be set up and taken down without any help from the participants.