ACBL Electronics ban

[TimG]

This is not the first decision by ACBL which seems to really hurt a substantial part of the bridge playing population. Early start times were another that came to mind -- when I complained about that the response I got was "arrive a week early" which is obviously not possible for someone trying to hold down a full-time (non-bridge) job.

I don't understand the complaints about early starting times. Don't most people who have a full-time (non-bridge) job work during daytime hours? So, when you go to a bridge tournament and are expected to play from about 1-4:30 in the afternoon and again from about 7:30-11:00, isn't this quite a bit different from your normal routine? Wouldn't morning and afternoon sessions be more like a regular work day, i.e require less adjustment?

 

There will always be time zone issues and there are people who work unusual shifts so that no starting times are going to be best for everyone. It would seem that daytime play would be a reasonable approximation of most folks' normal workday. But, early starting times don't mean that people have to wake up at the same time as they normally do in order to get to work. Not only are they unlikely to have a morning commute at a NABC, the starting time is sometime like 10:00, not the more typical 8:00 (or so) that people tend to show up for work. Is the typical person with a full-time (non-bridge) job really more alert at 11:00 PM than they are at 10:00 AM?

[Elianna]

When the early start times are at the East Coast NABCs, this is like playing bridge at 7am to a West Coaster. That's where the comment of "arrive a week earlier" was made to us.

 

And it's rather funny, as early start times seem to be much more common at the East Coast NABCs than at West Coast ones (where early start times would be beneficial for East Coasters).

 

I for one would be really unhappy waiting a half hour (or longer?!?) after the session to pick up my cell phone. And just to give some people an illusory feeling that there isn't cheating going on?

[barmar]

Now that it's been clarified that this extreme rule is only for the nationally-rated events, not everything, I don't think it's so bad. I'm still not sure that they're going to be able to enforce it in the early rounds. Events like the Life Master Pairs attract about as many entrants as the regional pair events, and the qualifying round is often played in the same ballroom as everything else. It seems like it would be difficult for them to enforce more stringent rules for this. However, when they get funnelled down to the finals, they could conceivably frisk all the entrants. :)

[h2osmom]

I really like the idea of far more simultaneous play, in team matches as well as pairs events. One of the only things I don't care for in team games is no hand records. And this suggestion is vastly superior to banning cell phones. I would not be happy at all to be frisked at an NABC, I am definitely a novice player, and yet I do enter NABC+ events, at least one, at every tournament I attend. I am tired of having my individual rights be trampled on in the name of protecting me. I think taking reasonable precautions, and then recognizing that nothing will stop all of it, is a good approach, including simultaneous play in as much as possible.

[rbforster]

Now that it's been clarified that this extreme rule is only for the nationally-rated events, it's still stupid and ineffective.

Fixed that for you.

[Trinidad]

Now that it's been clarified that this extreme rule is only for the nationally-rated events, it's still stupid and ineffective.

Fixed that for you.

Please don't change people's quotes, not even by 'fixing' them.

 

As to the contents of the discussion, the rule is certainly not stupid. The objective is not to prevent cheating (there are tons of ways to cheat if you would want to). It is to prevent unpleasant disturbance by ringing phones in the playing room. You can compare it to enforcing a smoking ban. A lot of people are annoyed by a ringing cell phone when they try to concentrate (which is what tournament bridge is all about).

 

Of course, you can give penalties for ringing phones (which is what I would opt for) but obviously the easiest way to keep ring tones out of the playing area is to keep the phones out.

 

In the exceptional case, where you have to be on call, talk to the TD. I am sure that he will either manage your phone for you or will allow you to carry your phone under certain conditions (e.g. you program it to only ring when the call comes from the emergency number. Most modern cell phones have such a function.)

 

And to be clear: Being on call is an exceptional case reserved for medical emergencies and heads of state. An IT professional is not 'on call'.

 

Rik

[finally17]

1.

Now that it's been clarified that this extreme rule is only for the nationally-rated events, it's still stupid and ineffective.

Fixed that for you.

Please don't change people's quotes, not even by 'fixing' them.

 

2. Of course, you can give penalties for ringing phones (which is what I would opt for) but obviously the easiest way to keep ring tones out of the playing area is to keep the phones out.

 

3. And to be clear: Being on call is an exceptional case reserved for medical emergencies and heads of state. An IT professional is not 'on call'.

 

Rik

To the first: It's a standard webforum joke, it was very clearly edited, lighten up a bit.

 

To the second: Umm, no, not even close. Searching people for phones is HARD. Enforcing stiff penalties if they ring is EASY.

 

To the third: Man, you're crazy. IT problems can cost a company boatloads of money. Of course they're "on call."

[barmar]

As to the contents of the discussion, the rule is certainly not stupid. The objective is not to prevent cheating (there are tons of ways to cheat if you would want to). It is to prevent unpleasant disturbance by ringing phones in the playing room. You can compare it to enforcing a smoking ban. A lot of people are annoyed by a ringing cell phone when they try to concentrate (which is what tournament bridge is all about).

They already have a different rule that's intended to address that problem. For quite a few years the rule has been that cell phones and pagers must be turned off in the playing areas. A phone going off can result in a penalty. One of my friends was even penalized for using his cell phone in the playing area after the session was over (he started dialing while walking to the exit).

 

This is a new, more stringent rule that only applies to high-level events, and says that you can't even have the device on your person, even if it's turned off. It's presumably intended to solve a different problem.

[jillybean]

As to the contents of the discussion, the rule is certainly not stupid. The objective is not to prevent cheating (there are tons of ways to cheat if you would want to). It is to prevent unpleasant disturbance by ringing phones in the playing room. You can compare it to enforcing a smoking ban. A lot of people are annoyed by a ringing cell phone when they try to concentrate (which is what tournament bridge is all about).

They already have a different rule that's intended to address that problem. For quite a few years the rule has been that cell phones and pagers must be turned off in the playing areas. A phone going off can result in a penalty. One of my friends was even penalized for using his cell phone in the playing area after the session was over (he started dialing while walking to the exit).

 

This is a new, more stringent rule that only applies to high-level events, and says that you can't even have the device on your person, even if it's turned off. It's presumably intended to solve a different problem.

That rule is ineffective, who hasn’t been interrupted by a phone going off during a game? People obviously don’t use the OFF or vibrate option. Shame the ban does not cover all events!

 

If enforced it will make for a better playing atmosphere but I don't know how effective it will be to prevent cheating.

[jdonn]

That rule is ineffective, who hasn’t been interrupted by a phone going off during a game?

The rule is not ineffective, it is just enforced sporadically at best. Almost every time someone's phone goes off they don't get penalized, it should be an automatic penalty and then we wouldn't need this silly rule that goes way too far and makes life inconvenient for people who weren't harming anyone.

[barmar]

That rule is ineffective, who hasn’t been interrupted by a phone going off during a game?

The rule is not ineffective, it is just enforced sporadically at best. Almost every time someone's phone goes off they don't get penalized, it should be an automatic penalty and then we wouldn't need this silly rule that goes way too far and makes life inconvenient for people who weren't harming anyone.

This silly rule doesn't even apply to most players, except during the first round of some popular national events like the LM Pairs and Blue Ribbon Pairs. Is the Red Ribbon Pairs included in this rule? It's probably the only national event where average players are in the field for the entire event.

[pclayton]

That rule is ineffective, who hasn’t been interrupted by a phone going off during a game?

The rule is not ineffective, it is just enforced sporadically at best. Almost every time someone's phone goes off they don't get penalized, it should be an automatic penalty and then we wouldn't need this silly rule that goes way too far and makes life inconvenient for people who weren't harming anyone.

Totally agree. I've seen this enforced at regionals when it first came out, and then the directors stopped caring.

[TimG]

This silly rule doesn't even apply to most players, except during the first round of some popular national events like the LM Pairs and Blue Ribbon Pairs. Is the Red Ribbon Pairs included in this rule? It's probably the only national event where average players are in the field for the entire event.

It applies to all flights of the GNT and NAP, as well as things like the Red Ribbon Pairs, Mini-Spingold, etc. -- anything that is nationally rated.

[barmar]

I've never understood why the "Turn off your cellphones" rule is so hard for people to follow. The directors make an announcement at the beginning of every session. What's so hard about reaching into your pocketbook (I don't want to sound chauvinistic, but it's practically always women) and turning off the damn phone? It's certainly easier than scrambling to find the phone and hit the Ignore button when it goes off during the session.

[awm]

This silly rule doesn't even apply to most players, except during the first round of some popular national events like the LM Pairs and Blue Ribbon Pairs.  Is the Red Ribbon Pairs included in this rule?  It's probably the only national event where average players are in the field for the entire event.

It applies to all flights of the GNT and NAP, as well as things like the Red Ribbon Pairs, Mini-Spingold, etc. -- anything that is nationally rated.

Um, mini-spingold, red ribbons, NAP B, and so forth are not nationally rated. Nationally rated means NABC+ events, a.k.a. the events that count as national championships for the purposes of Grand Life Master, a.k.a. the events that hand out platinum colored points if you place.

 

All of these are unlimited open events with regard to masterpoint holding (but not necessarily with regard to age/gender). The "limited events" are not "nationally rated."

[JanM]

The WBF has had this rule in effect for several years, with AFAIK no complaints.

 

Cellphones are not being allowed in the Vanderbilt playing rooms today (I have 2 in my pocket right now). No one has complained.

[TimG]

Um, mini-spingold, red ribbons, NAP B, and so forth are not nationally rated. Nationally rated means NABC+ events, a.k.a. the events that count as national championships for the purposes of Grand Life Master, a.k.a. the events that hand out platinum colored points if you place.

 

All of these are unlimited open events with regard to masterpoint holding (but not necessarily with regard to age/gender). The "limited events" are not "nationally rated."

ACBL seems to disagree with you:

Participants in nationally rated events (which include not only the top-level NABC+ games but also masterpoint-restricted contests such as the Mini-Spingolds, Mini-Blue Ribbon Pairs, National 199er and 99er Pairs and lower flights of the North American Pairs and Grand National Teams) will be reminded not to approach the playing area with a personal electronic device in their possession, even if the device is turned off.

[mike777]

From the March 9 Bulletin:

 

Electronic devices, excluding health-related

equipment, capable of sending or receiving

communication, including but not limited to,

headphones, earphones, cellular phones and minicomputers:

(1) shall not be allowed in the playing

areas, adjacent hallways, restrooms or accessible

break areas; and (2) shall not be used during a

session.

 

These restrictions shall apply to all pairs, team

members, captains, coaches, recorders and kibitzers

and shall apply throughout any actual playing session

or segment.

 

A violation of this policy shall result in a

disciplinary penalty of one full board (or 12 IMPs at

that form of scoring) for the first offense. A second

offense shall result in disqualification from the event

for the pair/team.

 

Kibitzers violating this policy shall be removed

from the playing area for the remainder of the session.

 

Does this mean no vugraph operators in the playing area?

This sounds as if they expect and want the directors to take this rule seriously. I did not see any explanation in the announcement of why they are doing this.

 

Bobby Wolff argues that protecting the honor of the game at any cost should be the sole objective of those in command.

 

He repeats stories of people talking on phones during live matches and how this at last leaves a perception of something strange going on and how people should not even place themselves in such a position.

 

Bobby Wolff in his new book, Lone Wolff, has quite alot to say about cheating at the top levels of bridge. He claims World Championships have been won and lost by cheating. He writes that the classified records of the ACBL are filled with documented information and lengthy dossiers on some of the perpetrators of bridge crimes.

 

He argues that enforcement of more rigid regulations regarding freedom of movement during a live contest should be mandatory. This includes going to the restroom.

 

He discusses the unsolved problem of security in Online/Internet ACBL games.

[awm]

The WBF has had this rule in effect for several years, with AFAIK no complaints.

 

Cellphones are not being allowed in the Vanderbilt playing rooms today (I have 2 in my pocket right now). No one has complained.

The real question is, how many penalties have been handed out?

 

I'm sure if this rule is not enforced, no one will care that it's on the books.

 

What I'm really worried about is that it will be enforced selectively.

[blackshoe]

The rule is not ineffective, it is just enforced sporadically at best. Almost every time someone's phone goes off they don't get penalized, it should be an automatic penalty and then we wouldn't need this silly rule that goes way too far and makes life inconvenient for people who weren't harming anyone.

Hear, hear!

 

When I first heard of the much-vaunted "Zero Tolerance Policy" first advocated, as I understand it, in the Toronto area, and later adopted (in theory) ACBL-wide, I asked "what for? we already have laws for that." Turns out the ZT policy is also enforced sporadically at best. :)

[jillybean]

That rule is ineffective, who hasn’t been interrupted by a phone going off during a game?

The rule is not ineffective, it is just enforced sporadically at best. Almost every time someone's phone goes off they don't get penalized, it should be an automatic penalty and then we wouldn't need this silly rule that goes way too far and makes life inconvenient for people who weren't harming anyone.

Of course your’e right, my bad wording. A 'keep the payers happy' approach rather than 'enforce the laws' is perhaps at the root of the problem.

[Trinidad]

1.  Please don't change people's quotes, not even by 'fixing' them.

[]

 

3.  And to be clear: Being on call is an exceptional case reserved for medical emergencies and heads of state. An IT professional is not 'on call'.

 

Rik

To the first: It's a standard webforum joke, it was very clearly edited, lighten up a bit. []

 

No, square brackets ('[]') are used to indicate that the text between them is different from the original quote. Emphasizing (e.g. boldfacing) quoted text is used to clarify what part of the quote you are commenting on. (You give the rest of the quote to keep the context.) Jokes are indicated by smileys.

 

As an aside: Since I had read the previous posts it was clear to me that it was a joke. But not everybody reads all previous posts.

 

To the third:  Man, you're crazy.  IT problems can cost a company boatloads of money.  Of course they're "on call. " [  :)  ]

This was obviously a standard webforum joke. I fixed it by adding a smiley, between square brackets. ;)

 

Rik

[foo]

1= The simplest way to deal with unwanted communication devices in the playing area is to JAM THEM. That is exactly what many bars and restaurants now do. The equipment involved is cheap.

 

2= Some folks have a legitimate need to be reachable at all times. And it is not even just for work. If my pregnant wife needs to reach me, Bridge comes a distant second to her. If the ACBL makes it impossible for my due wife to reach me, I will not be playing in ACBL events where that situation exists. I'm sure we can all easily imagine other circumstances that are similar in importance.

 

3= Being polite takes no more than PUT THE D@MN PHONE ON SILENT OR VIBRATE AND DO NOT ANSWER IT IN THE PLAYING AREA.

 

4= A regulation banning communication devices is not going to stop, or even slow down, premeditated cheaters.

 

If the real goal here is to reduce cheating at the NABC level, we should do what casinos do. A camera watching every table. A camera in every bathroom.

The cameras involved can be very small and dirt cheap.

 

Suspicious results or suspected attempts at inappropriate communication will then be consderably easier to confirm or deny.

 

At national and international events, every bid and card at the table should be recorded as a matter of course. Even for those events where screens are not used.

[hrothgar]

1= The simplest way to deal with unwanted communication devices in the playing area is to JAM THEM.  That is exactly what many bars and restaurants now do.  The equipment involved is cheap.

Might want to look at the following

 

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm...s_2&id=cellular

 

 

added by uday (from that URL posted by richard )

"

...The operation of transmitters designed to jam or block wireless communications is a violation of the Communications Act of 1934 ......

"

[finally17]

yah, the idea that restaurants jam sounds like urban myth to me.