benlessard Posted February 27, 2008 Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 Double. 1♠ is truly horrible: imagine that the auction proceeds 2♥-pass-pass. Am I supposed to bid 3♦ now, and watch partner return me to 3♠ with three spades and three diamonds? no, partner will never return to 3S with 3-3. In standard 3D showed better D then S because with any 5431 and some 5422 you will find a X. + you should really play 2Nt as artificial for these kind of problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted February 27, 2008 Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 Do the doublers also double with: ♠KQxx ♥Qx ♦xx ♣AQJxx? Yes. Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted February 27, 2008 Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 Do the doublers also double with: ♠KQxx ♥Qx ♦xx ♣AQJxx? I do. Whoops who did i just marry ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted February 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 Do the doublers also double with: ♠KQxx ♥Qx ♦xx ♣AQJxx? no2♣ or 1♠ now Why the difference? I dont want to hear 2♦ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted February 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 Do the doublers also double with: ♠KQxx ♥Qx ♦xx ♣AQJxx? I do. Whoops who did i just marry :) Tim I think :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted February 27, 2008 Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 Do the doublers also double with: ♠KQxx ♥Qx ♦xx ♣AQJxx? no2♣ or 1♠ now Why the difference? I dont want to hear 2♦ You didn't want to hear 2♣ when you were 4252. Are you saying that you will make the overbid of 2♦ when you hear partner advance 2♣ (and you are 4252), but aren't brave enough to bid 3♣ when partner advances 2♦ (and you are 4225)? I think that the non-ELC doublers are willing to pass if partner bids their doubleton, and thus it should not matter whether you are 4252 or 4225. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted February 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Do the doublers also double with: ♠KQxx ♥Qx ♦xx ♣AQJxx? no2♣ or 1♠ now Why the difference? I dont want to hear 2♦ You didn't want to hear 2♣ when you were 4252. Are you saying that you will make the overbid of 2♦ when you hear partner advance 2♣ (and you are 4252), but aren't brave enough to bid 3♣ when partner advances 2♦ (and you are 4225)? I think that the non-ELC doublers are willing to pass if partner bids their doubleton, and thus it should not matter whether you are 4252 or 4225.Hand1 Playing 'elc' 2♦ is not an over bid. Hand2 After (1♥) X (P) 2♦ Im reluctant to bid at the 3 level and I can bet my partner won't be very understanding if I pass and turn up with ♦xx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Hand1 Playing 'elc' 2♦ is not an over bid. Sorry, I thought, without apparent reason, that we were talking about what to do without the benefit of ELC. With ELC, it would seem to be a non-problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted February 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 ♠KQxx ♥Qx ♦xx ♣AQJxx (1♥) X (P) 2♦(P) ? for those who still double do you pass now? and if opener X's 2♦, what then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 ♠KQxx ♥Qx ♦xx ♣AQJxx (1♥) X (P) 2♦(P) ? for those who still double do you pass now? and if opener X's 2♦, what then? I pass, and also pass if opener doubles (which is takeout for most, btw). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 ♠KQxx ♥Qx ♦xx ♣AQJxx (1♥) X (P) 2♦(P) ? for those who still double do you pass now? and if opener X's 2♦, what then? Yes I decided to pass 2♦ when I chose to double. Yes I still pass if opener doubles. I would expect against most pairs this will be a takeout double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 I am sure I will get flamed for this but I will say probably 9 out of 10 experts would X with this shape routinely. Not worth a flame of course, but 9 out of 10 seems like a real exageration to me (I know you would have a better idea than I would.) Also a hand with xx in the doubleton and AQJ in the long suit is not 'routine' for the shape. For example I would double easily if the diamond queen was in clubs instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 I am sure I will get flamed for this but I will say probably 9 out of 10 experts would X with this shape routinely. Not worth a flame of course, but 9 out of 10 seems like a real exageration to me (I know you would have a better idea than I would.) Also a hand with xx in the doubleton and AQJ in the long suit is not 'routine' for the shape. For example I would double easily if the diamond queen was in clubs instead. yeah 9 out of 10 was a definite overbid, I retract that to 6.8 out of 10. BTW I didn't notice you bid 2D! Sorry for the unintentional insult, though I am surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 I am sure I will get flamed for this but I will say probably 9 out of 10 experts would X with this shape routinely. Not worth a flame of course, but 9 out of 10 seems like a real exageration to me (I know you would have a better idea than I would.) Also a hand with xx in the doubleton and AQJ in the long suit is not 'routine' for the shape. For example I would double easily if the diamond queen was in clubs instead. yeah 9 out of 10 was a definite overbid, I retract that to 6.8 out of 10. BTW I didn't notice you bid 2D! Sorry for the unintentional insult, though I am surprised. Lol. sorry for the insult, or sorry it was unintentional? :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 It is just so much better to X, the worst case scenario doesn't always happen and when it does you're usually in a 5-2 fit anyways which isn't even so bad. The reason that it's usually a 5-2 fit is that your partner knows that you'll sometimes have a doubleton. If your double guaranteed either three clubs or substantial extra strength, partner would be more inclined to bid a four-card club suit. For example, with xxx xxx xxx KQxx after 1H dbl 1NT, it's correct to bid 2C opposite Josh and to pass opposite Justin (unless playing ELC, obviously). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Dbl. Doesn't everybody play equal conversion nowdays? So, if I bid 2♦ over partner's 2♣ bid, it does not promise much (if anything) in the way of extra values. Err... How popular is ELC then? I've never played it with ANY partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Dbl. Doesn't everybody play equal conversion nowdays? So, if I bid 2♦ over partner's 2♣ bid, it does not promise much (if anything) in the way of extra values. Err... How popular is ELC then? I've never played it with ANY partner. Not only have I never played ELC I have never had a partner suggest that we play it. I don't think it is very popular at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 I am sure I will get flamed for this but I will say probably 9 out of 10 experts would X with this shape routinely. Not worth a flame of course, but 9 out of 10 seems like a real exageration to me (I know you would have a better idea than I would.) Also a hand with xx in the doubleton and AQJ in the long suit is not 'routine' for the shape. For example I would double easily if the diamond queen was in clubs instead. yeah 9 out of 10 was a definite overbid, I retract that to 6.8 out of 10. BTW I didn't notice you bid 2D! Sorry for the unintentional insult, though I am surprised. Lol. sorry for the insult, or sorry it was unintentional? :P Stupid question Josh! Surely Justin is sorry it was unintentional..... :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted March 2, 2008 Report Share Posted March 2, 2008 I think 1♠ is absolutely horrible, I really don't see the point of it. I don't feel that strongly betwen 2♦ and double. As everyone else says, make the queen of hearts the queen of clubs and it's obvious to double. I don't play ELC, if I double and partner bids 2C I pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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